As a follow up to my “The price is the least important consideration” thread in this OPINIONS section of the forum, I would like to discuss the topic of Bonsai on a Budget.

I have read numerous times in this forum on how a person could not afford to purchase good stock or yamadori due to the perceived high price. I feel this is an issue that many of us have to deal with. I personally am retired and live on modest fixed income. There are others who have young families and little funds available for their Bonsai collection, or others who do not have as much to spend as they would like. Can we be part of Bonsai?

At this point it is important for all to understand that ‘Good Material’ is not cheap. If it is collected, the collector had to locate the tree(s), spend the time and effort to collect the material, maintain the material till it shows signs of survival. All of these factors cost the collector money and time. If this person is going to sell the tree he/she is entitled to expect a profit… would you do the work for free?

If you are on a Budget, perhaps you can learn to collect your own material. Remember, you need to obtain permission for your collecting. Learn the proper way to collect a tree. Also, remember you need to show patience (there is that word again) and not collect something just because you are out looking to collect. Limit yourself to a tree that is going to be worthy of the effort. Also, don’t collect a tree unless you feel it has a good chance to survive. It is possible you may go out searching many times before you find something worthy, and then it may be in a location that makes it uncollectible. Keep looking remember quality and not quantity is the objective. You may find the ‘professionally’ collected trees don’t seem so expensive after all.

Some say they go to Bonsai Nurseries and the prices are sooo high. Again, like in yamadori, the owner of the nursery has spent time effort and cash to get the tree to this point, as well as the expense of maintaining the nursery.. Bonsai Nurseries do not make huge profits, they lose trees just as you and I do, and they deserve what they ask for their material.

If you are on a Budget, perhaps you can start with younger material. Many start with seeds or seedlings. Sure it will take years before these grow and progress to the point that initial work can be done. It will be even more years till these seeds/seedlings arrive at the point that they can compare to the trees at the Bonsai Nursery. Even those cheap trees purchased at the big box stores will require time to develop (if they ever do). Don’t discount the fact that in most cases the true bonsai stock has been brought along by someone who knows what to do and when. This stock has been pruned and possible wired so as to give you a heads start in the right direction.

I am not trying to paint a bleak picture. I am not saying you have to spend big bucks to get good results. And yes… sometimes ‘professionally’ available material isn’t worth it. I am saying as in the “The price is the least important consideration” thread you need to make choices. Are you willing to develop your own material from seed or seedling? Are you willing to take the time to learn how to collect and invest the time in searching out collectable trees?

If not, you may wish to think about limiting your collection. You can purchase 1 tree for less than you can purchase 2 or 5 (everything being equal). You don’t need to obtain new trees every year. Start saving, do what you can afford, save a buck or two a week (more if you can) and after a year or two you will have a reasonable amount to spend. Buy one good tree over two or three so so trees. The purchase of a smaller tree is USUALLY less expensive than a larger tree. Look at the prices of Yamadori, the larger trees are almost always higher priced than the smaller ones. Remember the more work that is in the tree, be it collected, field grown or pot grown, the more the seller needs to realize in order to make it worth his/her while.

In conclusion I feel it is possible to do Bonsai with limited funds. I have finally (I hope) figured out how to do it for me. Do I pass up trees I want? YES, but I don’t drive a high priced sports car either. I compromise and live with what I can afford. Hopefully I haven’t lost anyone. These are my thoughts, developed over the years, and they work for me. What are your opinions?

__________________
A Bonsai student living with his trees at N 44.37 W 77.49...
Think before you act... then think again... no good comes from rushing

I'm just a novice, but I agree. I don't have much to spend on bonsai, but at this stage most of whay I do spend goes into equipment and supplies. Most of my trees have come from my own yard (free), club raffles (5 tickets for $1), or low-cost material (I think the most I've spent is $15). As a result, I'm getting material that I have to train from scratch, although I have managed to get a two or three that had some preparation done as they grew. I actually prefer it this way right now, since I have so much to learn.

I will admit that a lot of what I've ended up with is probably not great material, but some of it isn't half bad and all of it has taught me something. So I don't see any of it as a waste.

Good advice.

I have always found it odd that people don't have a problem spending $4 on 15 or 16 "budget" plants over ten years and complain that bonsai stock is "too expensive. I'd never spend more than $100 on a tree."

That kind of attitude usually dooms you to having alot of middling and really bad trees for years. Those $4 maples will take a decade to make into anything workable. That "free" juiniper you dug up out of your yard is probably going to be a really ugly bonsai, if it doesn't kick off first.

What's the problem with having some patience and saving for a single nice specimen tree? It's primarily an issue of patience. I'd bet that the majority of "cheap" trees were bought on impulse and the need to have a tree "now"...

I am by no means a rich person, or even well off by alot of standards. I have, however, stopped buying cheap plant material for bonsai. I've sold off or dumped about 50 trees that I had accumulated over a decade of impulse and bargain basement shopping. THey were costing me alot of time and effort to not much end.

I now target specimen grade stock and save for it. I bought my most expensive yamadori tree on a time payment plan that I worked out with the seller.

Down the road--if you stay serious about bonsai--you will regret buying alot of inexpensive trees, collecting yard trees because they are "Free" (Which they aren't, but that's another post) and the like. I started with those. Haven't got any of that left.

Don't fool yourself. All choices have consequences. Choosing cheap material comes with other "costs" in time, viability and resources.

Does this mean you have to spend hundreds on excellent material, or that bonsai is only for rich snobs? For Heaven's sake no...It means don't buy something just because it's cheap. That's never a good idea. You usually get what you pay for. Buy something (And even more importantly if you're collecting something--make sure it's worth collecting--99 percent isn't) worth the trouble. Don't piddle away tree money in dribs and drabs on $15 plants every six months. SAVE for a really good opportunity.

Lehket, the last post wasn't aimed at you. I was speaking in generalities and posted it simultaneously with yours.

I know, and in fact I basically agree with what you said. The only problem I have is that whenever I try to save for something, some unforseen disaster comes along and I have to "repurpose" the money.

One area where I might quibble a little: Although time is also an investment, I've generally never felt that "time is money" is applicable in all situations. The time I spend on my trees doesn't reduce the amount of money I have to spend on feeding my family, since I don't tend my trees while I'm at work making money to feed my family and I'm not (right now, at any rate) planning on selling any of my trees to make money.

As a beginner, I just don't want to spend several hundred dollars on a tree just to have it die or ruin it with my lack of expertise. Maybe in a couple of years it might be good to have some nice "starter stock", but what I am learning in potted tree care in the meantime with my seedlings and crappy bare-root stock is invaluable, in my eyes.

Also, if I am going to learn, why not learn to create my own stock from seedlings? I think it's good to have plants in all development phases, and I know 5 to 10 years down the road (which we all say is nothing in bonsai years) I am really going to appreciate the seedlings I have been growing.

I don't think people should discount bonsai stock, but I know I am not ready to buy it right now, and I do feel like growing your own stock seems to get the short end of the stick sometimes

Basically, I am not going to try and save up for something I am probably going to ruin or kill anyways. It's all about baby steps!

I have to agree with you (ROCKM) on your points. I have slowly been reducing my collection to the trees that I really like and see a future for. Not surprising, these are the trees that were in general better at the outset. ALL of the big box purchases are gone. ALL of the spur of the moment collected trees are gone or will be shortly.

Another topic could be the 'rescue' cuttings. The ones that occur when you prune a tree. I'm trying to eliminate the desire to do this as well. They only take time, energy and sometimes money from the trees that should be my main focus.

At the moment I've saved up a few hundred dollars for the purchase of a tree. I'm proud of myself for having gone and looked at several trees and walked away. So far, the money has not burned a hole in my pocket. I know what I want and I hope I can stand my ground and not give in to temptation.

Jay

"Also, if I am going to learn, why not learn to create my own stock from seedlings?"

No reason not to start seedlings for later, say in about 7 years. The problem with using seedlings as learning stock is they cannot teach you about doing bonsai. They can teach you about growing seedlings. Very little actual work can be done on them and if that's all you use, you will have little experience in practices and techniques when they get bigger.

"As a beginner, I just don't want to spend several hundred dollars on a tree just to have it die or ruin it with my lack of expertise"

There is always an enormous learning curve in bonsai at the beginning. Cheap material has it's place. However, I think that buying a relatively expensive "finished" bonsai, within the first two or three years of starting can provide incentive to learn more quickly. Nothing like killing off a $100 specimen to get the bonsaiist to get serious about learning how to keep it alive and proper care.

"Another topic could be the 'rescue' cuttings."

This is another area where beginners look to get "free" material, but wind up wasting an enormous amount of effort and--more importantly-time. Simply cutting off a branch is seen as wasteful and as a source of more trees by many beginners. Learning to simply prune branches and not covet every little snippet is really "doing bonsai." Anyone see the "big names" trying to save cuttings from a big tree they're working on?

For every week you spend air layering an uninspiring twig or branch, you lose in growing out a new one on the primary tree. For every minute you spend tending to vanilla looking cuttings and air layers, you lose with your primary trees.

Jay...

Very well thought out...and stated. I'm sure there will be many"quality" responses.

Just somewhat remotely related...

You folks out there who can get to a nursery, or other bonsai establishment, to buy "starter" material, expensive or not, should be grateful...as in GRATEFUL!

Here we sit in Arizona, having made the move due to heath/care/age reasons (parents)...the parents have both retired to their home in the sky. So here we sit, wife and I...can't afford to move back to California where the rest of the family (mostly) is.

My age, and health, has overtaken my ability to collect...and, if I want to get starter material, I have to go out of state...to California or Colorado or Texas...and once I got the material, I wouldn't be able to bring it in to Arizona. How's them apples?

Be grateful, says I.

Pat

Pat, you make a good point. Not much I can say to help. And yes....I am grateful to have several Bonsai Nurseries within 6 to 8 hours.

As for collecting, is it possible for you to mentor someone on collecting, possible go with them and in return for your knowledge they dig you a tree? Just a thought.

Jay