Collector and all around wise guy.

Ron,

Professional wise guy? ;^)

Jim Stone
TX

Attila,



Very well put! I agree!

You bet'ca

Today I finally found someone else around here that grows/creates/is into bonsai. My sister told me about a guy just down the road from her with a "bonsai for sale" sign in his yard.

HUGE disappointment. Most of his trees looked like mallsai, with those ugly white pebbles on the soil. He probably had a few hundred trees but not one of them had much potential that I could see. He said he had been growing bonsai for 30 YEARS! Maybe he was stretching the truth, but he still had aquired hundreds of trees without ever learning what to look for.

I decided that he had never heard of the internet, and maybe he had never even heard of books.

I realized at that moment just how lucky us newbies are now-a-days. I might not make beautiful trees from the stock I have right now, but I feel like I have a huge advantage over this guy with my one year of experience, almost entirely because of internet sites like this one.

Hip Hip Hoorah for bonsaiTALK and the like!

Carl (OMC), I just reread most of this thread, and the comment that really stood out for me was your's about carving bones. The sense that I have about Western Bonsai that I find off-putting is exactly what you state: the sense that it is all about ME and MY self expression. What I most loved about Bonsai from the start was the sense of being put in touch with something BIGGER than myself. Altough some of our Western artists have awesome ability to create high quality Bonsai, I don't sense them as being somehow bigger or even more important than myself.

Thanks, Fred

Fred,

Interesting comment.

I don't know why it made me think of this but....

I was watching a video I taped off the TV a while back of Harry Hirao out in CA collecting Califonia Junipers. The video switches to Harry working on one of the collected specimens saying, this one will someday be a masterpiece, as he's wiring it, you don't find one like this very often.
Harry says, the tree is 70% and the artist is 30%.

It then hit me about material and how scarce really good bonsai material is.

Last Summer I really wanted to score another large trident maple at the Chicago show, knowing that there would be a lot of vendors.

I ended up leaving without one even though there must have been at least 50 for sale that were the size I was looking for. the problem was all of them had constraints that I wasn't willing to deal with.
I think that's one of the problems here in the West.
It's just too expensive for growers to grow grade A material for the masses to refine and develop.

It seems to me that this thread is more philosophical than anything else. One might say, "Well I'm half collector and half artist. On the other half, I sold 3 of my six collected California Junipers." Not that I am saying that this hypothetical statement applies to me or anyone else in any way, shape or form. I am just trying to make a point. I know that this forum is a wonderful for the exchange of thoughts and ideas... and that's great! It seems to me that alot of people in bonsai always have to define this and stick a name on that. Isn't bonsai big enough for things to be just what they are?
For example, as a newcomer to the wonderful world of bonsai, I am beginning to see alot of politics and "good ol' boy" clique types of people. I constantly hear people that are more experienced than others put others down because they don't do this, or that... or they're not "Japanese" style enough. Or how about this one... "If it wasn't said or written by John Naka... then it ain't SH*T." Now my intention isn't to offend anyone so if I have typed anything or otherwise that offends someone I apologize now ahead of time. Personally I think John Naka is great and all that... but alot of people are just "this" or "that" and anything else is wrong or not as good. Hence, I'd like to draw everyone's attention to the name of the thread again bonsai bigotry. It is well and alive in our wonderful hobby, art... whatever. Whatever happened to those immortal words uttered by the infamous southern Californian spiritual guru... "Can't we all just get along?"

As I was saying that I have been into bonsai for less than 2 years. Sometimes seeing the politics and the knives left in the backs of those who 5 minutes earlier were "pretending" to be friendly and cordial with leaves a sick feeling in my stomach. If Bonsai Al and Rips don't mind I'll bring it down to a local level. Because Al goes down to Kims and buys an imported trident does that make him any less of an artist? Someone else put in the years and years of work getting that nice taper and movement in that trunk. I've seen this tree, and IMHO it's only a matter of time until this tree is winning ribbons. There are those who would turn up thier nose and say, "Huh, I can go out and buy an already 'almost made' tree too! Do about 25% more refining and put it in a bonsai pot and win ribbons too!" I personally think Al is a talented person when it comes to bonsai. (Not to brown nose) On the other hand, there's Rips. There are those who would say, "Well, he has nice roots and nebari... but not much else..." I have to add in all fairness, Rips is a friend of mine but I am trying to be objective here. There are many who talk crap about others and like everything else it's probably not going to change. Can a newcomer like me learn something from Al about styling and refinement? Of course... and what is that knowledge worth? How about Rips, IMHO he can teach me alot about propagating, growing and developing... things that are generally thought of as a more horticultural side of bonsai. It could be said that anyone can go buy material, but if you don't have the "horticultural" basic knowledge to keep it alive and more importantly heathly... what do you have? A nice dead or sick tree! How about looking at it like this, versus just becoming a member of the "Counsel of They" and the select chosen few. Why can't I learn the take from the strengths that both have to offer and be better and my bonsai be better off because of it?

Thats crazy! I have had to make my own bonsai but only because Ive not had the chance to buy one, otherwise I would do.
I'd love a nice red maple bonsai but theyre sooooo expensive!