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Bonsai Bigotry?
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#2
by
Treebeard
on
13-Jul-2003
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Andy,
Bonsai bigotry? I agree with all you said on the subject. I see no problem with buying a pre-made bonsai, or a part finished one and finishing it off. Showing a tree you've only owned for 1 week? Ambivalent towards that. I can see your point, but how do you appease the artist who has invested 20 years of time in a tree who sees a collector beat her/him to the honours? Tell them to get over it I suspect you'll say, and I suppose that is the only real answer. Call myself an artist? nah, not really for me. I probably am one, you can call me one if you like, but I have no urge to proclaim to the world that I am one. I understand this subject is dear to you, but it just ain't to me. I am one of those people who cannot see himself in the same fraternity as the people you mention. My son has pulled dead leaves off my Chinese Elm. Technically he is now an artist as with everything there are degrees..Regards, Chris. |
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#3
by
TreeBay
on
13-Jul-2003
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Quote:
This is an interesting post and certainly may have something to do with the questions posed in the "bonsai popularity" thread earlier this month. On this forum I have occasionally read replies to the beginner that s/he begin with stock of some kind, but I have found it much more common to read that the interested party might want to buy a book or attend a club meeting. Our FAQ attempts to be as evenhanded as possible in discussing the various ways of acquiring bonsai. This is a pretty typical exchange to the question that was posed just today: http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/showthr...30937#post30937 but, it isn't unusual in suggesting books & clubs, clubs & books http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/showthr...s=&threadid=208 http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/showthr...s=&threadid=152 Regards, Matt |
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#5
by
K.A. Rutledge
on
13-Jul-2003
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Thanks Chris. You write:
"Showing a tree you've only owned for 1 week? Ambivalent towards that. I can see your point, but how do you appease the artist who has invested 20 years of time in a tree who sees a collector beat her/him to the honours? Tell them to get over it I suspect you'll say, and I suppose that is the only real answer." ------------------ This is the point - you're talking about judging the people rather than the tress. What is important in judging bonsai is the quality and beauty of the bonsai. In judging bonsai beauty and quality, it matters not one whit who owns the tree or for how long, or who styled the tree. This matters only in artists competition, not bonsai discrimination. Ego and quality are two entirely separate things. We cannot pretend to be concerned with one when we're only really concenred with the other. It makes for illogical and irrlelvant results. Kind regards, Andy Rutledge http://www.bonsai365.com/ :: living bonsai every day zone 8, Texas |
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#7
by
Carl_Bergstrom
on
13-Jul-2003
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Andy,
Brilliant! One of things that I like about it is that it caught me in the web of my own hypocracy! I started that whole participation and appreciation thread in the sincere wish that there were more connesuers of bonsai in this country, irrespective of whether they chose to actively style trees. But I'm also one of those folks who has looked down, overtly or not so overtly, on folks who buy trees rather than create them. I see that we'll all be better off the sooner we lose this attitude about owning versus styling. From here on I'll do my best to stop trying to have my cake and eat it too. And when someone says "Oh, she just buys her trees and has ___ style them," I'll respond "Cool! It's great to see that sort of enthusiasm..." instead of with my usual raised eyebrow. I also agree that, unless the conest is explictly about judging the artist instead of the art, as might be the case in a "new talent" competition or something, it is completely stupid to have this rules about owning a tree for some period of time before showing it. What if other art contests worked this way - the artist could only enter the object if she had not yet sold it on the market? What would be the point? Finally, a remark about words. Bonsai Today commonly uses the word "enthusiast" to describe the non-professional bonsai artist. Presumably this is a translation of a Japanese word that does not carry the negative connotations associated with "hobbyist?" Thanks for writing and sharing this piece! Carl |
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#8
by
K.A. Rutledge
on
13-Jul-2003
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dbz12fan,
Bonsai is not a competition. It is often a comparison. Trees cannot "beat" other trees, they are merely less beautiful, more beautiful, less artistically effective or less so than another. What I'm referring to has nothing to do with people - rich, poor or otherwise. Rather, it has to do with changing this ridiculous mindset that bonsai is about people who are better or worse than other people. On the contrary, last time I checked, the trees are what our focus is proported to be and it is the trees that should be judged to be of superior quality/beauty or lacking quality/beauty. If a tree is owned by a rich person, what business of ours it it? Why would that be bad? Is it then "good" that a bonsai is owned by a poor person? Where is the logic here. Holding to such irrelevant ideas is only concerned with class warfare and class envy. It certainly has nothing to do with how beautiful or artistic a bonsai is. Kind regards, Andy Rutledge http://www.bonsai365.com/ :: living bonsai every day zone 8, Texas |
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#9
by
Carl_Bergstrom
on
13-Jul-2003
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I can't venture to answer for Andy, but here's what I'd say, Charles:
Quote:
Well, close. The millionaire's tree wins the competition. The millionaire? Why pay any attention to him? When some thoroughbred wins the triple crown, no one gives a damn about who owns it, and no one says that only mustangs caught and broken by the jockey-owner can be entered in a horse race! When a splendid new building wins a design prize, people congratulate the architect, and no one complains that she doesn't also own the building or that she didn't build it from ground up with her bare hands. Nor does anyone claim that the underwriter "cheated" by hiring the architect instead of attempting his own design. Why should bonsai be any different? Quote:
If you remain worried that the wrong person get the credit, maybe we just need to pay a bit more attention to the history of tree and less to its current ownership. This is how things work in Japanese shows, of course. And there remains something for owners to be proud of, by the way - having the good aesthetic sense to buy the right trees and invest in the right artists' styling. No mean feat there! All the best, Cartl |
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#10
by
K.A. Rutledge
on
13-Jul-2003
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Hi Matt,
re: "On this forum I have occasionally read replies to the beginner that s/he begin with stock of some kind, but I have found it much more common to read that the interested party might want to buy a book or attend a club meeting. Our FAQ attempts to be as evenhanded as possible in discussing the various ways of acquiring bonsai." ----------- Sure, no slight meant to how this list is handled, nor is my post meant to imply that "all" the advice offered in online forums is as I cited. Rather, I'm referring to the pervading opinion on what material to start with in bonsai. Kind regards, Andy Rutledge http://www.bonsai365.com/ :: living bonsai every day zone 8, Texas |
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