A queer look came into the old eyes, a kind of wariness; the deep wells were covered over. 'Hrum now,' answered the voice; 'well I am an Ent, or that's what they call me. Yes, Ent is the word. The Ent, I am, you might say, in your manner of speaking. Fangorn is my name according to some, Treebeard others make it. Treebeard will do.'

...JRR Tolkien, The Two Towers.

Just having fun Andy

Regards,

Fangorn,
Middle-Earth,
Zone 8a.

In my last post I didn't mean to imply that European cclubs are lax in their standards. My point was that I suspected that many European clubs were like US clubss--across the board in terms of expertise, etc.

I've had the good fortune to join what I think is one of the older clubs in the Northeastern US, Yama Ki Bonsai Society, which for many years was mentored by Yuji Yoshimura. I'm looking forward to learning from these people, many of whom have been doing bonsai for 20+ years. This is a club that has a lot of experience to share.

But, the newer and smaller clubs are good too, such as the Kennebec Valley Bonsai Club in Maine, which I helped start a couple of years ago. They're doing fine, with a lot of people with 10 years or fewer in experience.

I'd love to see some of the European bonsai we've been able to view on the gallery. I really admire the spirit of you folks. You seem to really have a good time with your trees and each other.

Craig Cowing
Blooming Grove NY
Zone 5b/6a

Welcome to the world of Bonsai politics.

Judging, names, catagories, forums. Politics.

Who do you know.

My bonsai is better than your bonsai.

Country A's bonsai is better than country B's bonsai.

It's all a bunch of horsecrap.

Aggendas, never heard of them.

You want my full name on my post. Why?
So you or someone visiting or passing through this site can sell my name and address and make a little extra cash.

Bonsai is not just an art, it is definitelya Fine Art.......I tell ya "It's a Tiffany! Therefore that bonsai bush you dug up a 10 years ago is worth a fortune on the auction block!

Wooden Nickle? Never heard of it.

Art is like life......you'll never define it. You can have all the opinions you want about it, but....your grasping at straws. My opinion.

It's nothing to get up about.

Dan wrote:
"...I could make something up if you're prepared to press me on it, though..."

Ya' know, I thought that we were through with this childish sniping. Can we finally dispense with this crud and quit having to demonstrate continuously that we dislike people here. We know you don't like me. There's no need for you to keep reinforcing this irrelevant fact here.

That some here don't like others here is a given. That this fact needs to stay out of our online posts should also be a given. Can we agree?

And yes, I'm suspect of anyone who refuses to sign what they write. No big deal. Sign or don't sign, but let's not simply show our backsides instead.

Yours in exasperation,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas

You say this, yet you continue to post on this thread and push them into replying...why not just ignore them?

And does this thread the way it is going now actually contribute anything to Bonsai?

Andrew

or

Andrew Hansen
San Jose, CA

Yes, and it is easy to tell when it is absent as well. . . .

The point is, there is a big difference in deciding where something is or isn't art and whether or not it is "good" art.

Apropos of your point, it is like distinguishing between someone who is alive and someone who has "lived their life well."

Only if bonsai is art, can we begin to ask the more specific question, "What makes a bonsai good art?"

That when the fights break out But if there is enough common ground to fight over, there is, at the same time, a set of shared assumptions, namely that bonsai is, itself, art.

I think it is useful to think of "art" as a contested term and it is in that contestation that it gains its value. If we didn't argue over art, we wouldn't have any.

Doug

---------------

If I were continuing to snipe at people here, we know darn sure that I'd be jumped on. The double standard is inappropriate. This continued, childish activity is inappropriate. I want to continue with discussion and have to encounter a new jibe every few posts. Is it a good thing?

Yes, this thread is contributing to anything bonsai. There is great value in substantive discussion about some of these issues. I do agree that we are now widely spread on the topics within this subject. It may be time to redefine some of the specifics - starting other threads. However, the topics themselves are worth further discussion, even debate. I hope that it can happen.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas

I've never said anything about liking you or not liking you, I simply requested that you show some courtesy and respect to other people posting here, and then I disagreed with you about the assertions that you were making about the topic at hand. I have actually tried several strategies to get you to stop taking every argument I make personally and to address the points I make in my posts, and all I can get out of you is misdirection and personal attack.



My desire not to post my full name has nothing to do with my backside or anyone else's, and my comment about making something up was meant to convey the obvious truth that just because somebody gives their "full name" does not mean you can trust them. Again, all I can think is that this is a means of misdirection, something for you to comment on besides challenges to your "facts." Am I wrong about this? If so, let's dispense with all the nonsense and talk ideas.

Respectfully,

Dan Wilburforce McGillicutty Mukluks Aliouicious Meathooks III

OK, after way too many attempts to try to interject discussion back into the bickering, I give up.

This was an interesting thread about an important issue, maybe we can raise it again in another thread.

If nothing else, at least it has me thinking about paying much more attention to the European scene. I am certainly much more curious about the differences in style, attitude and approach than I was previously.

So thanks to those who offered those insights.

Cheers,
D

That's a rediculous name. :0

I hope it's not real, if it is I apologize

Here's some pictures of Euopean Bonsai to look at if you haven't seen them.
http://www.bonsaiandsuiseki.com/munchen.htm