I am way behind in answering a few questions the have been posted for me on this forum. Sorry I have not yet gotten around to answering them. Lots of things have happened in the old house the last few days. I will catch up soon.

In the meantime I thought I would just throw out the following and see what happens ;o)
Ron Martin
*****************
Random Thoughts

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the
stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with cold water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result - all the other monkeys are
sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon, when another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it.

Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attack him.

After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted. Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and
replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth.

Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked. Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.

After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana. Why not? Because as far as they know that's the way it's always been done around here.

And that, my friends, is how bonsai seems to be done these days!

• We read a book and decide that is the way it must be done. Climate and species of tree are constants. New York and New Orleans are the same.
• Jin on a juniper looks good so it must be the same on a ficus. If one has aerial roots on a ficus then they must be good on a juniper
• Poor-draining, fine-grained soil holds too much water due to the surface tension or capillary action so the same must be true for a coarser soil. They are both soil so they must work the same! We have read that this is true so it must be.
• There is a definite one, two, three structure of branch placement. Definite rules of bonsai styling.
• A height to girth ratio and a set amount of foliage depending on the thickness of the branch.

Lots of rules but not much fun or imagination! Has bonsai become stagnant? Are we like those Monkeys, or has just about every thing in bonsai already been done before? Like you were asked in school: "Are we doomed just to continually repeat what historically already been done?"

Have we been beat to death by convention or is there just so many ways to style a tree and still make it look like a tree?

Sorry. These are just random thoughts of a weird puppy while enjoying a good glass of wine. Even I am not sure I know what I am rambling on about!

Ron Martin

Ron,

I like the story about the monkeys. Good stuff.

But I don't quite get the analogy to bonsai as practiced in this country. Who exactly is advocating jin on ficus? Who is advocating aerial roots on junipers? (And how the hell do you grow them! Inquiring minds want to know!) Where can one read that soil is all the same?

Nope, I thought the analogy was going to go in a different direction. I thought that there was a certain on-line cage of monkeys, and every time those monkeys tried to discuss roots, they got sprayed with cold water because a fight would break out. Then one day a poor newcomer monkey came by, mentioned roots sensibly enough, and doggone if the other monkeys didn't jump all over him.


All the best,
Old Mister

OMC, LOL you couldn't describe it better…

Ron, if the question is, Are we attempting to do Bonsai the same as it ever was.. because a) thats the way it was always done; or, b) it has been tried all ways and this is the way it works (best)?

I too would like to know the answer to this question, even if it is slightly differing from the Monkeys..... they are cute little guys.... give'em the Banana!

Jay...... going to get a banana...........ouch!

Ron, nice analogy. I think you are too close to the truth for some people's comfort though.

(And just because my post comes after OMC's, it doesn't mean my remark is directed at him... )

While I agree with most of what you mused aloud about, I admit to being at a loss as to how to remedy things. I'm gonna do a "Ron" , and procrastinate on a reply...

BTW OMC, I think Ron is talking rhetorically about figs and junipers and soil...

Regards,

Chris - TB

Well, if I'd been quicker my reply would have been after OMC's... slow typing...

Regards,

TB

He's certainly talking rhetorically. Perhaps you mean "metaphorically"?

I don't know about your other assertions. Maybe it's too close for comfort, or maybe it just looks like a straw man...er...straw monkey to me.

-OMC

Guess everyone can read into my rambles what they want. ;o). But do you really understand what I am going on about or just ............

what an unfortunate faux pas...

Regards,

Chris.

Ron,

I thought I saw where you were going with that parable. Something along the lines of a reminder to ask ourselves whether we do what we do because it makes sense, or whether we do what we do because it was always done that way.

A couple of responses from opposite poles. First, I think that several of the contributors to this discussion board are among those most actively exploring this exact question. Walter Pall is certainly an obvious example. We've had long discussions about the role of rules in bonsai and very few here are trying to jam the narrowly construed Japanese rules down anyone's throat.

Second, let's not dismiss the value of tradition too lightly (not that I think you were doing this, but there are those on here who have done so). Art is created in a social context - without the social context one could well say you cannot have art. And part of that social context - in fact an important part of that social context - is the past history of artistic expression in the same medium. When I exhibit a bonsai, my audience will invariably see my tree in the context of a certain tradition. My own expression reflects that tradition and also is defined by its accordance or dissonance with the standards and artistic principles within that tradition.

An analogy: when Bob Dylan "went electric", this generated the response it did because his new music was seen in the context of his previous more traditional acoustic folk music. When we deviate from traditional standards in bonsai - whether they exist for basic design reasons, for horticultural reasons, or for no reason at all - we inevitably set up a constrast for the viewer. The tradition may be arbitrary, but art is evaluated in the context of that tradition.

Don't read this narrowly - I'm not saying that change is a bad thing. I'm just saying that a skilled artist pushes boundaries while remaining well aware and well versed in the traditional forms. I doubt we have much to disagree about there, though please do correct me if I'm wrong.

Best regards,
Old Mister