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  #21  
by Carl_Bergstrom on 19-Dec-2004
No Matt, it's not just you. Some of those articles are just plain cringe-worthy. Fortunately, we do have a few US contributers that actually raise the average quality of the magazine. Mike Hagedorn's recent articles come to mind....

Best regards,
Carl

Addendum: As for the "publish yourself or don't complain" argument, I don't buy it for two reasons. First, it's just the old "don't critique bonsai if you don't have great bonsai in your garden" argument dressed up in new clothes. Second, in my professional life, I do a bit of publishing. Whether you'd want it to work this way or not, the fact is that the best people don't send articles to the journals that most desperately need the help - they send articles to the best journals that will take their work. In the sciences, we wouldn't think to blame good authors for publishing in good journals instead of bad ones. I don't see why bonsai should be any different.
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  #22  
by RonMartin(deceased)
on 19-Dec-2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeBay
Is it just me, or does anyone else find quite a lot of the articles by Americans in Bonsai Today embarassing? It has gotten so I cringe when I see certain names.



Regards,

Matt

Hate to say it Matt but I don't think that I have ever seen your name on one of those articles. Why do't you write one. I am sure it woulld be a good one well worthy of publishing
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  #23  
by RonMartin(deceased)
on 19-Dec-2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Bergstrom
Addendum: As for the "publish yourself or don't complain" argument, I don't buy it for two reasons. First, it's just the old "don't critique bonsai if you don't have great bonsai in your garden" argument dressed up in new clothes. Second, in my professional life, I do a bit of publishing. Whether you'd want it to work this way or not, the fact is that the best people don't send articles to the journals that most desperately need the help - they send articles to the best journals that will take their work. In the sciences, we wouldn't think to blame good authors for publishing in good journals instead of bad ones. I don't see why bonsai should be any different.

This resaoning is just about the best example of what I am talking about. Mostly an excuse for not showing you can or want to do better.
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  #24  
by Vance Wood on 19-Dec-2004
Not to put too fine a point on it, some of these publications accept articles only from certian people. Sending articles to them usually results in the sound of silence unless you are the right person. On this I know of what I speak. In this country you have the freedom of the press and freedom of speach but nobody is obligated to listen or publish.
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  #25  
by Carl_Bergstrom on 19-Dec-2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMartin
This resaoning is just about the best example of what I am talking about. Mostly an excuse for not showing you can or want to do better.


Which part, Ron? And why is it an excuse? You're making accusations and not providing any rationale. Maybe you should try to understand the very basics about the journal publishing market before you start tossing accusations like that around. What I was saying was this. The market for journals is not like the market for cars; try a web search on my name and journal publishing and you can read a bit about why.

Best regards,
Carl
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  #26  
by RonMartin(deceased)
on 19-Dec-2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Bergstrom
Which part, Ron? And why is it an excuse? You're making accusations and not providing any rationale. Maybe you should try to understand the very basics about the journal publishing market before you start tossing accusations like that around. What I was saying was this. The market for journals is not like the market for cars; try a web search on my name and journal publishing and you can read a bit about why.

Best regards,
Carl

So then Carl. Tell us what we have to do. Give us some examples. Where did we go wrong.
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  #27  
by RonMartin(deceased)
on 19-Dec-2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance Wood
Not to put too fine a point on it, some of these publications accept articles only from certian people. Sending articles to them usually results in the sound of silence unless you are the right person. On this I know of what I speak. In this country you have the freedom of the press and freedom of speach but nobody is obligated to listen or publish.

Good Lord Vance If the ABS Journal will publish articles from me then you sure got a chance. You are more talented and better known than I will ever be.
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  #28  
by Carl_Bergstrom on 19-Dec-2004
Links to my research papers on the economics of journal publishing have been erased because I never should have made the mistake of mixing my work life and my personal life. If you give a damn about what I do when I'm not relaxing here, there's always google.

Read them so that we're on the same page, and then we can talk. But the main point is simple. Journals compete, not just for readers, but for authors as well. If a journal doesn't successfully compete for authors because they don't offer the right benefits (e.g. circulation, prestige, copy-editing, etc.), you don't go and blame the authors. The journal needs to change somehow. But how? If I knew the answer to that I'd be in higher demand as a publishing consultant.

Best regards,
Carl

Last edited by Carl_Bergstrom : 19-Dec-2004 at 10:15 PM.
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  #29  
by RonMartin(deceased)
on 19-Dec-2004
Wow now I feel good. Must be making some headway. I just noticed that I received some negative feedback on my comments. Lost 3 reputation points because someone posted the following to my reputation thingie.
"Walter wasn't even talking to you."
Must have been the same little birdie that made the previous comments. Kind of nice to know that I am important enough to hit an extra button.
Way to go ;o)
Ain't the internet grand.
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  #30  
by RonMartin(deceased)
on 19-Dec-2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Bergstrom

Read them so that we're on the same page, and then we can talk. But the main point is simple. Journals compete, not just for readers, but for authors as well. If a journal doesn't successfully compete for authors because they don't offer the right benefits (e.g. circulation, prestige, copy-editing, etc.), you don't go and blame the authors. The journal needs to change somehow. But how? If I knew the answer to that I'd be in higher demand as a publishing consultant.

Best regards,
Carl

Guess you have said it all Mr. Crow.
BTW I did read the links you posted. You do seem qualified. Pity you are not in the mood to help the art out.
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