Broom Style Elm Renovation

FredL

OK, Tony, you're a pretty smart guy and I like to hear your opinions. Seems to me that the basic purpose of Bonsai is not to imitate nature (necessarily), but to create pieces that evoke feelings akin to those we experience when in the presence of great natural wonders. Widely accepted bonsai conventions as well as techniques drawn directly from real trees may contribute to this. The bottom line is whether or not a tree evokes the desired feelings.

Now, what I'm wondering is whether you believe that there is sufficient variation in human perception that different people will be stirred or indifferent to very different trees.


I suppose that it is likely so, judging by how different my tastes in music, architecture and other art forms is from people as close to me as my wife and children.

Fred

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Tony

"Seems to me that the basic purpose of Bonsai is not to imitate nature (necessarily), but to create pieces that evoke feelings akin to those we experience when in the presence of great natural wonders."

Yes, Fred. I would agree with that and I think that says it well. In bonsai we shouldn't try to copy trees in nature down to each individual detail. It's not really possible to do anyway. We are after a image that is easy to comprehend but will also inspire us and hopefully others with a sense of amazement and wonder. Some may even feel a sense of deja vu if the tree reminds them of a tree or place they have seen before. If we can achieve that then We have done well.

"Now, what I'm wondering is whether you believe that there is sufficient variation in human perception that different people will be stirred or indifferent to very different trees"

Yes, generally speaking I think that's true. I think the way people perceive a given bonsai will have alot to do with their individual likes and dislikes and past experiences. It might even have to do with where they grew up and the kind of trees they saw as kids. I guess it reminds them of the good old days. Of course, there are a few people that will never be inspired no matter what you show them. The kind that stand at the edge of the Grand Canyon and say, Oh, a hole in the ground, big deal!

Tony

FredL

Tony, I really like your comment, "We are after an image that is easy to comprehend, etc." I never heard that thought before. It is very intriguing.

Fred

K.A. Rutledge

Fred,

That "image that is easy to comprehend" is a big part of what art is concerned with. As I've written many times, the "useful artistic conventions" (what some call the rules of bonsai) are mostly concerned with simplification. This simplification is concerned with offering the viewer something easy to understand, while at the same time, compelling and somewhat familiar.

When the "useful artistic conventions" are firmly grasped, the artist can use subtle manipulations of these conventions to play with the simplistic image/features to imbue the work with a life that is specific to his/her style.

I know I've said it dozens of times here, but let me say it again: To know how to make beautiful bonsai first requires an understanding of artistry - the basics of art (not bonsai). He who wants to make beautiful bonsai, yet dismisses or fails to learn basic artistic principles (like simplification) is doomed to make mediocre bonsai forever.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas

FredL

Andy, I'm afraid that you are WAY ahead of me when it comes to understanding art. You may even recall some comments I made in the past about my vision of bonsai as being the pursuit of becoming a competent craftsman. A very inadequate vision for you or a Walter Pall. Nevertheless, a compelling one for me. If I get to the point that I am turning out mediocre examples of bonsai that are nevertheless recognizable examples of good, solid craftsmanship, I will be delighted!

Even so, I do find comments like Tony's and yours very enjoyable to learn about and contemplate.

Fred

K.A. Rutledge

Hi Fred,

Actually, your ideal of craftsmanship is pretty right on the mark, IMO. All art involves craftsmanship and good art involves great craftsmanship. There's not the one without the other. It may be a point of splitting hairs, but it could easily be argued that art is just craft done well. There are more involved ways of quantifying it, but I'd not be able to argue against that kind of definition.

So, I see nothing wrong with your desire to become a competent craftsman. Whether you care to call it such, that is the road to artistry. Good on ya.

BTW, Walter and I don't compare well. He is a far better craftsman and artist than I. Give me another decade or two to get to his level of either. When I'm as old as he is now (pretty darn old), I may begin to challenge him. ;-)))

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas

Craig Cowing

Andy:
Somehow this thread got off the track. Here is a virtual, even though you didn't ask for one. I suggest taking off the two lowest branches on the right to introduce some movement. I realize it changes the broom style, but it seemed to me it would solve the problem of the bar branches.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a

Attached Images

andy.tree.jpg (31.3 KB, 100 views)

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LivingArt

Not playing devil's advocate or nothing but IMHO, with broom style bar branches don't bother unless they are COMPLETELY at the same vertices. Although I am some-what of a rule breaker, slap me on the wrist.

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Brettj_arts

Comparing the virtual and the real tree, I really like the tree the way it is now. I think it is charming, and even after people pointed it out, the branch is really quite natural looking, it doesn't feel out of place the way it is at all. The tree is quite charming the way it is.

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