Careful With Those Lights!!

Bart Thomas(deceased)

There's a story on CNN

That tells of two firefighters being killed in a fire caused by "gardening" (Marijuana) lights.

The grower has been charged with 3rd degree murder.

I think I'll hold off on those Halides!

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kvnharv29

Hes probably being charged because he was growing a highly illegal substances. I doubt youd get charged with anything if it happened to you while growing bonsai!

-Kevin

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Tony

Now this is a good example of big government run amuck/amok. It seems clear from the article that this guy's intentions was to grow marijuana, not to commit murder! Yet he is being chargerd with murder. This is the kind of mission creep that you get if people don't keep a restraint on their governments. You've got to keep them small and constitutional. At least in this case the firemen had a good reason to go in, my God, his house was on fire. I can give you a story per week where some druggie informant gave the police the wrong address and inocent people are shot to death at 5 am. In actuality, if these guys can get the murder charge to stick they can then take his home and possessions. I'll bet the police department could use a new battle tank. Always follow the money. That will show you what is going on.

Tony

Dale Cochoy

Bart,
Those New Jersey infrared monitoring helicopters are probably hovering over your house right now. Lets hope they believe you have "Japanese Maples" before they chop them all up and burn them.

Also Bart, , along the lines of Tonys "comments" they'll also sieze your boat, airplanes, cars and dog . Don't let them get your Dog!!!

Dale

__________________
________________________________
If you want to be Different....
You have to DO something Different!
__________________________________________

Some people NEVER take the time to do a job right the first time....
but, they always seem to make the time to do it over again...
____________________________________________
Dale Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio
Yakimono no Kokoro Bonsai Pottery
Hartville, Ohio

pootsie

Tony:

This is not an example of big government run amock. This is an example of a charge called "felony murder," which is third degree, as opposed to murder committed with planning and the intent to kill, which is first degree.

Felony murder is where one causes the death of another in the course of committing a felony, regardless of whether the death was intended. For instance, if I'm robbing a bank and a customer drops dead of a heart attack from the stressful situation, I can be charged with felony murder for causing the death even if I didn't mean it. Here, with enough marijuana plants to reach felony possession, the facts fit the charge.

So, no, you would not be charged with murder if this happened with indoor bonsai growing instead of growing pot.

For those of you who think that this is a recent development of government run amuck and we should return to the common law, I will note that the concept of felony murder has been around longer than the US Constitution. It IS common law. http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia...iminal_Law.html

pootsie

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Columbus Bonsai Society

Bart Thomas(deceased)

Hey, guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was just warning that the heat could be dangerous!

As for Dale:

You can see (and buy) the stuff they seize at:

Steal it Back (aka the Property Room)

Tony

Pootsie,

Yes I know that these kinds of charges are brought all the time these days. That still doesn't make it right or just though. I don't think the state could have gotten away with it 40-50 years ago. Alot of these pile on charges seem to have started around the time of the war on drugs. I'm for making the punishment fit the crime and charging people with what they are actually guilty of. Traditionally, murder has had a specific meaning: The killing of another person [an innocent person] with the intent to do so. I'm not saying that you can't get 50 lawyers in a room and come up with a different meaning but that's what it means for most of us.

In this case, as sorry as I am that the firemen lost their lives, there was no intent to kill them. This Guy was simply trying to grow a few illegal plants with cheap lights and electric extension cords. Stupid to be sure but not murder. He should be charged with cultivating marijuana and nothing more. You might make the case for negligent or reckless manslaughter but even that's a bit of a stretch since the firemen entered the burning house of thier own free will.

That term, murderer, has quite negative connotations that will go with him through life also. If this guy ever does get out of prison he's going to have a tough time of it. For instance, I can imagine going for a job interview and having to state that you where convicted of growing pot. I'm sure there are quite a few that would put that in perspective and give you a second chance. Now if you have to tell them that you are a convicted murderer I somehow think the odds of getting a job would drop PDQ.

By the way. Wellcome to the forum.

"Hey, guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was just warning that the heat could be dangerous!"

Don't worry about it Bart. I've been known to put a new twist in quite a few threads. Just my nature I guess, always taking up for the little guy.

Tony

pootsie

All in all, it makes me glad that I gave up the closet agriculture a long time ago, and now I stick with bonsai and tomatoes only

Thanks for the warm welcome, which many have given me thus far.

pootsie

__________________
p.s. My cat is a bonsaiTALK Master.
Columbus Bonsai Society

Dale Cochoy

Hey Bart,
Went to the auction.....
where's all the quarter million $ cars and boats?

I guess they never made it that far. :>)

A few years ago I worked for the city a couple years supervising crews planting/care/removal of annual flower gardens in the city. Our trucks/equipment were kept at the garage where police cars were repaired. I often saw a real neat mustang seized and used for a D.A.R.E. car . I always wondered what college kid got caught smiking a joint in it!!

Speaking of dangerous heating lights
( BTW, Bart I got the idea :>) ,
I would REALLY recommend watching these quartz "Work Lites" on stands or with clips they sell. Very common in 250 watt and 500 watt. They get too hot entirely and you can't touch them after only a few minutes. Stuff deteriorates on them quickly. I refuse to use them except momentarily now in my kiln shed at night if I suddenly need more light for something. If you are thinking of buying any for garage work or anything, look at oneat a store turned on for a few minutes first!

__________________
________________________________
If you want to be Different....
You have to DO something Different!
__________________________________________

Some people NEVER take the time to do a job right the first time....
but, they always seem to make the time to do it over again...
____________________________________________
Dale Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio
Yakimono no Kokoro Bonsai Pottery
Hartville, Ohio