Where can I get a bonsai?

Dr.Bonsai

Beginners are often interested in how they can acquire bonsai. This article discusses some popular methods.

Bonsai can be acquired by a number of means:

• Purchase as "finished" trees
• Purchase garden center material
• Mallsai
• Collecting from nature
• Propagate by layering or cutting
• Gifts!!!
• Planting Seeds
• Club shows, swaps or auctions
• Estate sales

Purchasing "finished" trees is the fastest, but most expensive way to get started building a collection. "Finished" bonsai don't really exist, because the trees continue to grow and undergo changes (hopefully positive ones!) until they eventually die. Finished bonsai are those trees that have been brought to an arbitrary level of refinement, varying, in the case of the mall bonsai or "mallsai" from very little training to very expensive trees that have undergone decades of work. You need to be aware that your purchasing power may exceed your growing skill, so take it slow and build up.



Collecting or developing trees from cuttings or seedlings are excellent ways to produce the finest quality bonsai; however, the beginner may have variable success with these somewhat advanced techniques. Most anyone can plant a seed and enjoy its growth for years as we pursue other activities, so I don't want to discourage you, but it shouldn't stop you from considering other options.



Developing bonsai from material found at the garden center is very rewarding. The material may be most any woody plant or shrub in a 1, 3, 5 gallon container or larger. Look for interesting character. Poke around a bit, moving some of the foliage out of the way so that you can appreciate the trunkline and consider a design.

You may be lucky enough to find starter material (2-inch or 4-inch liner material) of various types at your local nursery that can be adapted for use as bonsai. Miniature Plant Kingdom sells a variety of material in 2" and 4" liners of popular bonsai species. Conifers, flowering trees and deciduous forest trees are all represented in their offerings.

Some staked junipers make excellent bonsai. You may need to reduce the plant's height significantly to keep it in scale with the trunkline. Keep in mind that the "finished" height of a bonsai is usually between 3 and 10 times its caliper, measured at the root base. Shortening a plant will make its trunk appear larger relative to its height.

Joining a bonsai club will give you access to some sources that would not be available to you otherwise. Trees are sold at club auctions and at shows, members swap trees they have outgrown, overcollected or simply lost interest in. Entire member collections are sometimes sold at estate auctions as members pass-on or lose interest.



Let me tell you a secret - Auctions and estate sales are two of the best opportunities to acquire fine bonsai and pots at bottom dollar prices. The reasons are as follows:

• Supply and demand: when an entire bonsai collection goes up for sale, there can be a high ratio of trees to buyers, which tends to drive the prices down
• Ugly Factor: Trees may be sold at a loss simply because of economic need on the part of the seller, or because the tree's appearance is in decline. In just a few months a tree can become overgrown and would appear unsightly to a novice buyer, but it retains much of its potential in the hands of a knowledgable buyer.

One key example of the Ugly Factor at work is that bonsai pots are less expensive to buy when there are trees in them. Particularly: ugly trees. You can probably find an antique pot with a really bad looking tree planted in it that would escape the eye of most buyers. Discard the tree and you have a beautiful pot!

Unmarked or Out-of-season purchases are my absolute favorite. When you have been around bonsai for a while, you will be able to recognize trees in most any season. If you find a tree for sale when it's not in its best suit of clothes, you can strike a great price at an auction or sale. If you know that bare, knobby looking thing is a Ginkgo, and that half-dead-looking "cypress" is actually a Larch, you're two steps ahead of many other buyers.



Distressed or neglected bonsai are a great way to acquire some venerable material with great potential at a reasonable price.

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ripsgreentree

Dr. Bonsai:
In reading your article, I feel that it feeds into a serious problem that we in America, in California and preticularly in Fresno have. This is the tendancy to be cheep! To buy cheep. To collect cheep, or in the case of an estate sale to steal cheep.

In your first article in the first sentance you have the words "fastest " and then " expensive" fastest is good and expensive is a warning. At the end of this article you say "trees that have undergone decades of work" preceded by the warning expensive and ending with the warning you may buy something that you are not able to care for.

In your second article you open with "produce the finest quality bonsai" and then pass it off with the disclaimer "I don't want to discourage you" and end with "consider other options".You pass off one of the most important aspects of our art form with 62 words and most of them discouraging.

In your third article you might as well have said, garden center material is cheep. What you did not say is that, creating good bonsai out of garden center material is very difficult and often takes very advanced techniques. These techniques can take as much as two years to recover from. This comment does not include buying something and shoveing it into a bonsai container without considering foundation or roots.

I agree with your comments about Don Herzoge (miniture plant kingdom) and have no comment about clubs because to my shame, I have never been a member of one.

Finally you end up on the aspect of aquiring bonsai that you really want to talk about and that is how to acquire bonsai cheap. Now this brings me to this first question...If it is so dangerous to purchase material that has decades of work in it and is expensive. With the warning, You may not be able to keep it alive. Why is it good to steal (get a good deal) from the collection of someone that has died? Material that has possibly generations of work and care in it. Wouldnt this have the same mortality rate as the "expensive" material in your first article and is this somehow ok! because the material was aquired cheep! It is my openion that we suffer from this malidy because no one teaches the appreciation for material that, with some care will out live the care taker. Instead of teaching the aspect of how to buy cheep, which in my openion is already a learned habit to our discredit. Possibly teach appreation for and the techniques required, to care for older bonsai material.

In the words of SoilDoc "I hope that I haven't honked you off to bad"
ripsgreentree

__________________
ripsgreentree

It requires an open hand to give and to recieve.

bnsaijim

HEAR! HEAR! Go RIPS!

Yeah, how about that concept of stewardship and passing on to the next generation of artists?

And how about collected material- Gee, it might even survive when it's from the person's own locale!

Nursery material is fine and all, especially to learn on, but it is getting more and more limitting every year. All I usually see now is sticks and liner stock- nothing with meat to make even decent mame.

BTW- they'll be no bargains at my estate sale... ;^)

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Jim Stone
Seki Bonsai Studio
sekibonsai.com
Santa Fe, TX

TreeBay

Greetings,

Feedback is always appreciated, and the points concerning bonsai as a long-term, committed venture for many growers are well taken. But, I am afraid that taking this position as a complaint against the above article is largely missing the focus.

It seems to me Rips is reading things into this article that simply aren't there. True, the article does state that buying a bonsai is the fastest way to acquire one, but there is nothing that states, as Rips suggested it might, that "fast is good." Maybe someone didn't read the last sentence in that same paragraph, the one ending, "take it slow and build up?"

This is an article for the beginner forum, and as we all well know, beginners frequently lose a good percentage of their trees. Loss and disappointment can be discouraging or it can outright turn them off to bonsai. Personally, if I had a dollar for every person who told me "I had a bonsai, but it died," I could take the entire forum to Benihana and have enough change left over to feed the parking meter!

For me, The single most important aspect of our art form is a shared enjoyment of bonsai that promotes an appreciation for the natural world. Anyone can enjoy bonsai. It doesn't even require that they even get their hands dirty, although I enjoy that too. Personally, I don't care if someone derives appreciation from a planted seedling, a $10 mallsai or a $10,000 masterpiece. I believe Doc's point here, that beginners don't get turned off on the hobby (as so many do) because of a bad investment or a dead tree, is a valid one.

I am sure any writer would be flattered to know that someone actually counted the words in his article. But is it fair to complain that only 10% of an overview article on acquiring bonsai for beginners was directed to collecting, seedlings and propagation? The article does present collecting and propagating in a positive light, but it would be remiss to suggest that this is the only route for a beginner:

Collecting or developing trees from cuttings or seedlings are excellent ways to produce the finest quality bonsai; however, the beginner may have variable success with these somewhat advanced techniques.

Yesterday, Rips posted two nice Rosemary bonsai in the gallery, one grown from seed for 15 years, the other grown from nursery stock in training 1 year. Where would we suggest a rank beginner start off? Would you tell him, "Hey, let's go to Lowe's next Saturday, pick out a plant, and we'll get started!" or would you say, "Plant a seed and call me in 10 years when you are worthy?" The Doc said, in effect, "Go ahead and plant that seed, but in the meantime, let's look into other ways, too."

Where's the beef with that? It's clear from Rips' postings that he has gone both routes at one time or another.

Rips wrote, "In your third <paragraph> you might as well have said, garden center material is cheap." The article actually says that Developing bonsai from material found at the garden center is very rewarding. It doesn't say anything about cost.

The next paragraph goes on to discuss how the purchase of out-of-season plants, overgrown trees, etc., at club shows and estate sales is one way to obtain fine material and pots without losing your shirt in the process. The fact that the previous owner of the trees might be bored of bonsai, specializing in shohin, doing time in the pen, concentrating on conifers, divorced, dead, or otherwise not available for comment is incidental to that point.

In closing, this article is about Acquiring Bonsai. If Rips or anyone else wants to write one about "Appreciation for and the Techniques Required to Care for Older Bonsai Material," I say, "Please go for it!" I am sure there is a great deal of information to offer. It's a worthwhile topic, it's just not the subject of this thread.

Regards,

Matt

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bonsaial1

When I am looking at bonsai stock whether at a bonsai nursery or at a garden center, my first motivator is value. I determine this my what the plant has to offer based on the price it is offered at. I have seen trees come in at garden centers that would make very good bonsai very cheap. I have also seen mat. come in that could not be made into bonsai no matter how long you worked on it. If the mat. is good I will pay more for it. But it has to be within the realm of other stock at an equivilent price. For instance 1 gallon shimpaku at the garden center may sell at 6.00. I would give 12.00 or double maybe even 15.00 for a plant at a bonsai nursery, because maybe these plants have branches with foilage closer to the trunk, or lower branching in general. If the owner of the bonsai nursery thinks that because he is a &quot;bonsai nursery&quot; and I have stock that can not be had anywhere else, and thinks that the plant is worth 35.00 or 50.00, then this is a nursery with alot of 1 gallon shimpaku junipers lying around.

Human nature is to scrounge, hunt and find a bargain. There have been many times that I haven't spent money on bonsai because things were tight. Then I go out of town to a show like I did this weekend and find a trident maple that was only 8&quot; tall. 2 inches across at the trunk bottom, and the most perfect branches. They were asking 45.00 for the plant. That is value no matter how you look at it. Of course I had to do a little groveling to open up the check book, but neverthless it's mine.

People will spend the extra money on plant material, but it has to meet the buyers critera not the sellers expectations. The grower can have acres or what they beleive to be the finest bonsai stock, But it may never sell if the perceived value is not there. 18 years in the retail game has taught me one thing about the retail shopper world, and Tom Peters said it best, &quot;Perception is all there is&quot;.

__________________
Real men don't wear coats with "happi" in the title.

ripsgreentree

I humbly withdraw.
Goodbye.
ripsgreentree

__________________
ripsgreentree

It requires an open hand to give and to recieve.