First Post

Obliverate

Have been reading this forum for only a month now and just recently purchased a juniper that is about 8 yrs old. I have been collecting data from all of you (thank you) but when it comes down to it...im aftraid to touch this tree for fear of maiming/killing/whatever it. I have not purchased any tools yet either so it has been growing wild (plenty of new growth in the foliage!). My biggest question is "what is pinching exactly?" how much can you pinch off at a time etc.

i was stationed in Japan for years (thats where i was first exposed to Bonsai) and used to watch a lot fo the monks at a temple across the street from my guard post work on them. We weren't allowed to talk to them as they had taken a vow of silence and all......they have some of the greatest trees i have ever seen!!! It seemed like they never used pesticides or anything else non-organic on them; only water taken from a rice patty field and a tiny pair of snips. I don't think i ever saw them "pinch" anything but maybe they had a routine that didnt fall under my watch. They also only stripped bark off but never sanded the wood down or applied anything else to it after that...as that branch grew they continued to strip and maintain it and eventually it became a scarred limb that looked really nice.

One of the trees was 'destroyed' i thought when i drunken sailor decided to step on and crush the tree on night, snapping the main trunk and several large branches in the process. the next morning when the first monk awoke and came to tend to the trees he didnt even blink.....he knelt, lit some form of incense and 'prayed' i think. they never used any wire or anythign to repair this tree....they stripped all the areas that had broken/snapped and let t grow. eventually they propped several of the branches up on large pots for support. I left shortly after all that so i never got to see what became of these trees..hopefully i will get back over there someday and see them again.

Along these lines, is there a 'school' of thought in Bonsai that doesnt believe in treating the tree with anything except time, pinching, pruning and de-barking

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D3rutat

Junipers are pruned in a different way decidous species do. If you were to use a pair of shears to cut some foliage, the ends of the needles would get brown and that isn't nice to see. By pinching( pinching means to use your thumb and index finger and pull the foliage you want to remove) you avoid the browning of the foliage. You should remove foliage in steps depending on how old the tree is. For a young tree i would remove more than 20% of the foliage at the time, but for an old tree you can remove up to 40% of the foliage at a time.The same rule applies if the tree is healthy or not. Here, take a read at these:

http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basics_Pruning3.html
http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/pruning.htm
http://www.bonsaiprimer.com/pruning...er/conifer.html

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Bonsai Club Romania

Carl_Bergstrom

And you base this assertion on....?

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D3rutat

You mean, where did i come up with these statements?
I've practiced with a 10 yr old nursery juniper and tryed to see how much foliage i could remove at a time and i found out that the tree survived after i pruned 50% of the foliage.but this should be done only once and make sure that the tree gets very good growing conditions afterwards as it is really stressed due to that foliage loss.The 20% foliage reduction is the maximum i would go for an unhealthy tree.

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Bonsai Club Romania

Carl_Bergstrom

So now I'm confused.

You say in the first post that you can remove up to forty percent of the foliage, and that the same rule applies to an unhealthy tree.

Now you say that you should remove only twenty percent on an unhealthy tree.

Which is it?

And more to the point, why on earth are you pinching an unhealthy tree?

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D3rutat

sorry for the confusion.
What i meant to say was that you can remove up to 40% of the foliage to an old and healthy tree and a maximum of 20% to an young tree or unhealthy one. Remember, a maximum of 20% NOT 20%

I would remove some foliage on an unhealthy tree when i know that it has unbalanced roots and foliage, like if it were root pruned, i would prune the foliage aswell to balance the loss. I am naming a root pruned tree an unhealthy tree bcos once a tree is root pruned it isn't as healthy as it was before the root pruning

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Bonsai Club Romania

Carl_Bergstrom

False.

A properly root pruned tree may need slightly different care (no fertilizer for 4-6 weeks, for example), but it is not less healthy what for the root pruning. If you're pruning the roots to the point that you are stressing the tree, you're pruning the roots wrong.

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D3rutat

Every time you cut something of a tree you make it loose sap,foliage,food supplies, etc. so it's a loss. I know that a root pruned is not a true unhealthy tree, a true unhealthy tree would be a tree with root rot, bugs and so on. But if we where to make an analogy with the human body it would be like telling me that when i cut a finger off from someones hand he isn't loosing anything and he would be in perfect shape, Thats wrong

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Bonsai Club Romania

Carl_Bergstrom

D3Rutat,

I don't see the point in continuing. You're giving bad advice and stating false facts. When called on them, you redefine words and claim that you knew all along. Worse yet, you draw irrelevent analogies that frankly make no sense whatsoever - finger-pruning is not a regular part of human maintenance!

In a span of 13 minutes you somehow managed to type both

I am naming a root pruned tree an unhealthy tree

and

I know that a root pruned is not a true unhealthy tree

Bonsaitalk isn't just some word game for aspiring sophists (despite what can at times appear to be strong evidence to the contrary!) People actually read these posts and maybe even take your advice on occasion. Does it occur to you that this sort of behavior perhaps does a disservice to those who don't know any better than to disregard your posts?

-Carl

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