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#11 |
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Tips:5¢ Advice:Free
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"For a young tree i would remove more than 20% of the foliage at the time, but for an old tree you can remove up to 40% of the foliage at a time."
"I've practiced with a 10 yr old nursery juniper and tryed to see how much foliage i could remove" Is 10 years "young" or "old?" ![]()
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#12 |
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bonsaiTALK Master
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it's young of course and the fact that i removed 50% of the foliage on a young tree instead of an old tree, and i said that you shouldn't never remove more than 20% of the foliage on a young tree shows how careful i was when giving this advice, i left a 30% space so that i made sure that nothing wrong happens to his tree after a 20% foliage reduction.
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Bonsai Club Romania |
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#13 | |
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Tips:5¢ Advice:Free
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Quote:
Let me get this straight: You had a bad experience on one ten year old tree and this led to your judgment about not removing more than 20% of the foliage from a young tree, and you feel confident based on that experience to lay it down as a rule for others to follow? Regards, Matt
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#14 |
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bonsaiTALK Master
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What do you mean by "bad experience" ? The tree survived with 50% of the foliage removed.And youre telling me that if a tree survives with 50% foliage loss it will die with 20% foliage loss?
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#15 |
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Tips:5¢ Advice:Free
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By bad experience I mean, "really stressed" and in need of "very good growing conditions afterwards as it is really stressed due to that foliage loss."
"The tree survived with 50% of the foliage removed.And youre telling me that if a tree survives with 50% foliage loss it will die with 20% foliage loss?" I am not telling you anything. I asked you to provide clearer information concerning the basis for your assertion. Are your recommendations based on on experience with one plant? Regards, Matt
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#16 |
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bonsaiTALK Master
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No, i experimented with about 4 other junipers but not removing that much foliage, about 30-40% and they all survived. Isn't it enough?
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#17 |
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Tips:5¢ Advice:Free
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Obliverate wrote:
"Along these lines, is there a 'school' of thought in Bonsai that doesnt believe in treating the tree with anything except time, pinching, pruning and de-barking" Pinching is a type of hand pruning used on developing foliage while it is still succulent (that means it hasn't hardened off yet). Pinching can be used to 1. Make the tree more compact by reducing the spacing between buds and twigs 2. Direct growth to other (unpinched) areas of the tree 3. Create smaller, more delicate foliage 4. Shape the contours of a branch and the silhouette of the tree. Pinching is an excellent way to develop foliage clouds and pads. Pinching is just one technique in controlling growth. It can be a powerful one if it is done correctly. How much growth you can pinch depends on the health of the tree and the strength of the branch (may depend on its location on the tree, too). Playing with Pinching If you'd like to experiment with pinching your juniper, you'll want to try the strongest branch tips first. Those are generally found on the apex (top) and at the ends of the outermost branches. If you have a camera you can keep a record for comparison's sake, because it will take a couple of months to see the results. When to pinch: Pinching needs to be done when the growth is still succulent, before it has hardened off. Trees grow in flushes, and with your juniper from time to time you'll see lime green branches extending from the tips. If you're right handed, you can grasp the branch in your left hand and using the fingertips of your right hand, splay and pluck some of the lime green growth. It will be soft enough that it should tear away easily without much trouble. Pinching about half of the new growth is a good start. Now watch over the next couple of months how that branch develops. Pinching is just one technique for controlling growth. It would be very hard to develop a convincing bonsai by using pinching alone. Thinning and wiring will reveal and refine the bonsai's shape, and at some point you will need to prune away branches that have become too thick. Pinching deciduous broadleaf trees: If this were a deciduous tree, we would be talking about when to pinch in terms of how many leaves had developed at the branch terminal. Depending on your goals you might pinch after 2, 4 or more branches had developed. The sooner you pinch, the more pronounced the result. It is not unusual on the strongest areas of a maple, for example to actually force the bud open and pinch out its center before it extends. Hope this helps you get started! Give it a try, and come back with any questions. Regards, Matt
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#18 |
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Intermediate
Join Date: Jun-2002
Location: Hudson, FL
Country: USA
Posts: 435
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Dear Obliverate, I will not presume to give advice here, but I will tell you about my own experiences with junipers. I have been working on them for about 30 years. Here in Florida the season for root pruning and heavy foliage and branch pruning is from the last week or so of January, until the mid to end of February, depending on how quickly it gets warm. Once the cool weather is over, I quit that part of my work. (same with deciduous trees.)
In fall of 02, I bought 12 San Jose' junipers in 3gallon containers, as they were a good deal. The elderly man grew strictly for the bonsai hobby and was having health problems so he was selling off everything. When the end of Jan. rolled around, I cut about 75 to 80% of the roots and foliage off of the trees, repotted them in shallow growing pots. (5 and 7 gallon black nursery pots that have been cut down to 6 or 7 inches high.) I used Super Thrive in the water (there is a debate about that too) and kept them mostly in partial shade for about 3 weeks....until new growth appeared. Then back out in full sun. In all fairness to the truth, I did lose one.... but never had a problem with the other 11. One year and a half later, they are really thriving, very robust. Lots of ramification, lots of new growth. During the growing season, all summer long, I pinch and bud nip. I take the little bundle of needles that haven't opened yet, at the tips, between my thumb and fore finger, and roll it, till it pops off. This encourages compact growth and more fullness because at the point where the bundle popped off, several more little branches will pop right behind that point. If the little green branches behind these bundles are too long, then I use my thumbnail and press the branch between thumbnail and finger to cut it off by half. Once there are "pads" developed, during the Jan-Feb time you can shear them with scissors for a fast hair cut. They will brown at the tips, but in a few weeks when the growing season starts, they put out new growth pretty fast. Shearing is frowned on, but if you have 50 or so junipers to groom, the old fashioned way is very time consuming.....but still gives the best results. My oldest San Jose' is 25 years old. I started it from a cutting off of an other plant. I was so happy with the 11 junipers bought in fall of 02, that in spring of 04 (about 3 weeks ago) I went back to see if he had anything left. They were pretty picked over, but I managed to find 10 more that I could be happy with. These have only been lightly pruned. He wasn't able to take real good care of them, so they are pretty ratty and need lots of TLC. This summer I will concentrate on spraying (they had mites) and feeding them.....and doing a little stratigic pinching to promote some fullness where I want it. By this coming January, they should be ready to root prune. As they are growing and developing, I will root prun several times over a period of years, to get the nice radial of fine feeder roots around the base. When root pruning, I try to remove anything growing straight down from the bottom of the tree. If lots of fine feeder roots are present around the base of the tree, I remove anything that is thick root. If the fine feeder roots are mostly out on the ends of heavier roots, then all you can do at that time, is shorten them up a bit to promote fine roots behind that point.....and go back another year and do it again. This routine has always worked for me. I hope this has been some help to you. Best wishes for your success. susieq Last edited by susieq : 16-Apr-2004 at 10:24 PM. |
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