Pine With No Candles...

Treebeard

Hi All,

I need some advice regarding my little yamadori cascade pine.
It was collected approx 4 years ago, put in a big growbox for 18 months then potted into the current pot.
Each year it has been very reticent to put out any candles. This year there were none at all.
There is a very healthy crop of mycorrhizae amongst the roots, (very dense white fuzz around the roots when the rootball is lifted from the pot.)
The soil type is not the best probably, almost pure peat with small amounts of grit and perlite. This mix is a proprietry brand sold as 'bonsai compost' (alright it is B&Q own brand).

Can anyone tell me what's gone wrong, or what I am doing wrong, or whatever?

Any styling help would be most appreciated also...

Regards,

ps I have no idea what type of pine... it was collected on a common in SW England. It was smack bang in the middle of a path, hence the trampled look.

Attached Images

pine 1.jpg (62.2 KB, 236 views)

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Treebeard

top view.

jin is natural, not man made. Just had lime sulphur on it to preserve.

BTW it's not actually resting on the pot, it does support itself.

Attached Images

pine 2.jpg (50.1 KB, 181 views)

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"Do not be hasty, that is my motto"
-JRR Tolkien, The Two Towers.
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TreeBay

It's probably Scot's Pine (Scotch Pine) which, I think, Is Pinus sylvestri

Here's a french page, but might give you some idea how they look.

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/georges.gra...130/130p007.htm

It would probably be best to get it into some well draining mix. I never met a pine that liked peat.

Regards,

Matt

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Treebeard

Is it really as simple as that? If it is then OK.

But will repotting it stimulate or retard new bud growth next spring?
I don't want to tip this tree over the edge (so to speak) and kill it by repotting and stressing it when it's not well, but on the other hand would leaving it alone 'do' for it too

Also, how does one tell when a pine is dead? will the needles stay green for ages after death or do they turn brown quickly?

Thanks,

Regards,

__________________
"Do not be hasty, that is my motto"
-JRR Tolkien, The Two Towers.
-----------------------------------
christopherguise.co.uk

Jay

Hi there, on the question will a pine show it, when its dead. I brought home two Pinus Strobus (American Eastern White Pine), from my summer home. I cut off the top of one, due to the loss of roots. This was a few weeks ago. The severed apex is still green and looks better than the remaining tree. Sooo I guess they do not show death to easily!

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Treebeard

Jay, hmmm ...

I hope I am not cultivating a dead twig...

Regards,

__________________
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-JRR Tolkien, The Two Towers.
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Tony

Needles can stay green for quite a while, 2-3 months anyway. The first thing you would notice is the needles becoming dry and brittle and a lighter shade of green.

Sounds like it needs a repot into faster draining soil. Also is your tree getting plenty of sun?

matsu

Pine are typically very strong, resilient trees and as such will struggle along for a number of years in poor soil. Two needle pine typically like to be on the dry side favoring a very course fast draining mix with little or no organic matter (especially no peat in that it hold tremendous amounts of moisture). They suffer greatly and exhibit the symptoms you describe when the mix holds too much water. When their vigor deteriorates to the point that they don't form new buds at the branch tips, its a sign that the tree is on its last legs. They can usually be saved, but drastic action is necessary. Doing nothing inevitably leads to death. The old saying that "insanity means doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result" seems to apply in bonsai.

I've had this same experience with some black pine I acquired that were in a very fine sandy mix that simply held too much moisture for my climate (Texas gulf coast zone 9a which is very hot and humid with 40" of rain annually). The problem was amplified by being potted in shallow containers. I revived them by repotting into deeper pots using a very course fast draining mix of mostly aggregate (80 percent) in the 3/16" to 1/4" (4mm to 6mm) range and akadama (20 percent) of the same size. The akadama was added to provide some moisture retention and you can substitute something else (e.g. pine or fir bark) as long as it is of the same approximate size. It was necessary to remove almost 75 percent the soil leaving only a little in the interior of the rootball which will be removed in subsequent repottings.

Such a repotting shouldn't be done in the fall if it can be avoided, especially if they will experience freezing temperatures. With these trees, I nursed them along during the winter and closely monitored the soil moisture with chop sticks. They were then repotted as soon as possible in the very early Spring (late January here) just as my elms started to show the first signs of life by bud swell. The reason for the early repot was to give the roots as much time as possible to recover before they came out of dormancy. Thereafter, I fertilized with organics, slowly building up the dosage as the tree showed signs of recovery and new root growth.

This is pretty drastic treatment for a weak tree and I'd suggest that you try to show the tree to someone in you area in the UK with pine experience and solicit their advice. Being from different climates, the timing of things may be different but the process shouldn't change much. Best of luck. Regards, Matsu

Treebeard

Matsu, Tony, Jay & Matt,

Thankyou people for your help with this tree. I will do as you suggest matsu, and seek advice locally on the timing of the repotting. I'll keep you all posted.

Regards,

__________________
"Do not be hasty, that is my motto"
-JRR Tolkien, The Two Towers.
-----------------------------------
christopherguise.co.uk