Kilnless clays??

rockm

"can I use this, is there any way to screen it to remove stones and big grit and then bake it in a fire ?"

Potters use collected clay all the time.

However, even if you have a supply, you still have to fire it at extremely high temperatures to make it usuable for a bonsai pot. You cannot get around having to have a kiln for this. Baking in a kiln at extremely high temperatures causes molecular changes in the clay, essentially melting molecules back into solid rock (or rock-ish) form. Clay is sediment from rocks.

You cannot achieve that kind molecular change at 500 degrees in your oven. You will simply get dried dirt that will dissolve --in a few minutes or a few days--when water hits it.

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zen

Is there any way to get an outdoor fire hot enough, I was thinking I could hookup some kind of pipe with a hair dryer duct taped to the end to act as a bellows, and burn coal in it? Also if I get the clay what would be the best way to take out the big grit? I was thinking just roll it out on an old table top and hand picking the bits out.
Aso if I get the clay and clean it and build something from it, how long can one keep that indoors in a dry place, before taking it to a place where I can rent some kiln space,...I am thinking I might can get it in at one of the University of GA kilns, I have gone there before to have them drill me a couple of copper plates for pinhole cameras, the very nice lady there did not want to charge me, and would not take the five dollars I brought for her, so I just left it on her desk.
EDIT: Also would one color clay (white/light gray--red/orange--or black/dark gray) be better, more rare, or easier to work than others ?
In other words which clay should I try to look for more of ?

__________________
"Although profoundly "inconsequential," the Zen experience has consequences in the sense that it may be applied in any direction, to any conceivable human activity, and that wherever it is so applied it lends an unmistakable quality to the work."

~ Alan Watts (1915-1973)

http://www.bonsaiswap.com/

rockm

No. You can't get an outdoor fire hot enough for long enough under enough control to fire a pot to the required temperature. That requires a kiln.

As for asking another to use their kiln--they will might refuse, as your effort could wind up irreparably damaging their equipment. Pots that aren't dried adequately can explode in the kiln.

Joanie

Zen, just go to the college and work with/for them so that you can learn the basics. It took us thousands of years to learn how to refine and fire clay.... why reinvent the wheel? Really, you can channel your creative energy into learning and exploring ceramics under the guidance of someone who knows how to work with your local clays, how to fire, and how to glaze.

Only after you learn these basics, can you succeed in your quest. Even if you achieve some sort of low-fire terracotta, it will never be strong enough or durable enough to be worth your labor. Spend your time with clays and firing temps that will endure. I promise, it will be worth the effort.

Joanie

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RedPine

There are ways to make your own kiln. A fire pit works. Horst has a watering can thing. I have read on the forum here of garbage cans reaching cone 5. But I have to ask, Zen. Why not just take one of those simple one time pottery classes? They will have knowledge, good clays, a kiln, turntables and all the needed tools and glazes. A place in your area and only 23 minutes away ( http://www.mapquest.com/directions/...2631&panelbtn=2 ) Good Dirt has a Friday class and the fee is only 20$, includes all the turn tables and supplies you need and you get to keep the pot. Looks like they have other more advanced workshops and regular classes for a very reasonable fee aswell. Going by the gallery pics someone there has some real talent to, maybe make buddies with them.

510 B North Thomas St.
Athens, GA 30601
706.355.3161
gooddirt@bellsouth.net
http://gooddirt.net/

rockm

"There are ways to make your own kiln. A fire pit works. Horst has a watering can thing."

Horst's watering can is basically Raku firing. Raku is NOT about high firing the pot--it is about GLAZING and AREADY FIRED pot. This kind of firing is about melting glazes--surfaces--not about firing the entire pot. The kiln is only used for a short time--minutes, not half a day. Besides, Raku fired pots cannot be used very effectively for bonsai anyway. The glaze wears off.

Zen, you simply cannnot make a high fired durable bonsai pot without a kiln. If you don't take a pottery class, do some research of the web on how pots (bonsai pots in particular) are made. Learn the basic processes involved and you can make better informed decisions. The process is basically finding an appropriate clay source, build the pot (which can be demanding depending upon what you're after), drying time--which is done in the open air--at least not in the kiln (this can take weeks depending on the size of the pot), bisque firing (preliminary firing at lower temperatures to harden the pot--glazes are sprayed or painted or dipped onto the pot in this stage in preparation for firing), then final firing (which is done to the higher temperatures--glazes melt, the pot is fired to stoneware levels-Cone 7 -1750 F and a little above. A pot has to be kiln fired for a relatively long time-three days in the kiln, including a two day cool down is not unheard of.

This is a very rough explanation from a non-potter. There are many variations in firing and technique, but to achieve the stoneware hardness (stoneware is a specific term that denotes the firing temperatures used in production)required for bonsai pots, you cannot get around a kiln.

Fooling around with attempts to do this without a kiln can have tragic results. Achieving 1,750 degrees--that's one thousand seven hundred and fifty degrees Fahrenheit-- in a trash can for eight or ten hours is impossible. It will melt. Trying to achieve that kind of sustained tempearature with some kind of inground kiln could start a fire that gets out of hand.

zen

I will get to Good Dirt as soon as I have the extra time and money. I will post the pics of whatever monstrosity I create.

__________________
"Although profoundly "inconsequential," the Zen experience has consequences in the sense that it may be applied in any direction, to any conceivable human activity, and that wherever it is so applied it lends an unmistakable quality to the work."

~ Alan Watts (1915-1973)

http://www.bonsaiswap.com/

Joanie

Rockm is absolutely right. The primitive firing methods used in pit or raku firing don't really get hot enough to mature the clay for a bonsai pot. Yes, other things can be fired that way... decorative ware... but they are never hard enough for bonsai pots which are constantly wet, sometimes frozen, often under pressure from heavy trees and soil, and under assault from the minerals in the water and fertilizers.

While Georgia clays can certainly be used for firing, there is more refinement than picking out the rocks. There is a whole series of steps to turn raw "clay" into something useable. Weaknesses in the clay body will become fatal flaws in the pot. Clay is a magical, alluring substance... which has mesmerized people for eons... but learning all that you can, will save both effort and heartache.

Enjoy your time playing with clay! Offer to help them with chores and see if they will give you a discount on your classes, maybe they need some painting done? Trading work is common in artisan communities.

Joanie

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Dale Cochoy

Zen, note the KEY word is WORK!

"WORK ! "
-Maynard G. Krebbs-

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If you want to be Different....
You have to DO something Different!
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Some people NEVER take the time to do a job right the first time....
but, they always seem to make the time to do it over again...
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Dale Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio
Yakimono no Kokoro Bonsai Pottery
Hartville, Ohio