Kilnless clays??

zen

Just wondering if there is any way to try my hand pottery without having access to a kiln? Any kind of polymer clays or anything like that, that will hold up to bonsai culture?

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"Although profoundly "inconsequential," the Zen experience has consequences in the sense that it may be applied in any direction, to any conceivable human activity, and that wherever it is so applied it lends an unmistakable quality to the work."

~ Alan Watts (1915-1973)

http://www.bonsaiswap.com/

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nsmar4211

Zen:

I've tried using the Fimo brand colored clays, and the Sculpey brand white clay (comes in a 1 lb box).

With the Sculpey, the small pots I made and used outside without any kind of sealer ended up getting chalky and breaking easily. The "mudmen" type figures I've done, which were painted with acrylic paints, have survived a year so far. The acrylic paint is wearing off, although I'm sure a sealer would help with that.

The few Fimo sculptures I did are ok, although the colors are fading pretty quickly. I didn't do any pots out of it, but if the sculptures are any indiciation, they'd be too fragile.

Now, my biggest problem with the little pots I had made is that I had to bake them several times due to the thickness. The white Sculpey scorches easily, and trust me, you don't want to be around when it does! PHEW... plus the fumes aren't good (move any birds out of the area)... The finished pieces are fragile regardless of what the package says . I've thought about using the flexible stuff and seeing if its stronger (I think sculpey makes it), but when I figured out how much I'd be spending on the materials it was cheaper to buy a "real" pot....

Now, my experience with it has been in Florida, I have no clue how it would hold up to freezing. I know that frozen raw (unbaked) clay is very very breakable-I'm guessing the baked clay would be worse.

I'm not sure the long term leachability (is that a word?) of the plasticizers... but the Portulacaria cuttings that were in my pots grew just fine (until the pots broke).

If you're gonna try this, my advice is make the pots and then leave them out for a day or two on several pieces of paper-you'll see the oily plasticizers leaching out around the pot... I've found letting this happen firms up the clay and it's easier to handle. I've done this to raw clay (not sculpted) when it was too mushy to work with. My hands heat the clay up fast and the white sculpey got too soft (although it was nice when kneading the fimo brand, which is a lot harder).

You can color the white sculpey with acrylic paint when its raw by kneading paint into the paint (not too much or it gets nasty). You can paint either brand with acrylic paints. What I do, I do a pre-bake at 3/4 the time to cure the piece so I can handle it, then I paint it, and then rebake the proper amount of time. That way the heat sets the acrylic paint too. The prebake lets you paint so you don't distort the object. I bake my pieces on a piece of white ceramic tile, they remove easily once they cool and the tile is easy to handle (and cheap-.88 at home depot).

WARNING: When taking the baked pieces out of the oven, LEAVE THEM TO COOL! You WILL burn yourself and break the pieces if you try to handle them before cooling. Use oven mitts to take the stuff out. Trust me, I've burned fingers and messed up several sculptures. Also, SET A TIMER... set every time in the house and every alarm clock when baking it..... if you forget it, it will scorch/burn and it's really really nasty. Highly recommend not using the kitchen oven, buy yourself a toaster oven (check thrift stores) ...baking outside is best, the stuff stinks. Don't even eyeball the microwave, I've heard some nasty stories about the end result....

If it were me, I'd stick with only doing the mudmen type figures with it.....

rockm

You'd be better off working with plastic or polymer compounds like bondo, cimint fondue, etc.

You're never going to be able to replicate a clay bonsai pot with unfired clay. Simply won't work. The results aren't durable and dissolve. That's why clay is fired in the first place--to make it impervious to water and melt it back into the rock it once was.

zen

Hmmmm. bondo pots. Now there's an idea, I imagine one would have to build some type of frame to build the bondo up onto to,...anyhow I will not be trying bondo pots,i'm pretty sure, but if anyone else has I'd LOVE to see some.
The cement fondue stuff I might take another whack at.

__________________
"Although profoundly "inconsequential," the Zen experience has consequences in the sense that it may be applied in any direction, to any conceivable human activity, and that wherever it is so applied it lends an unmistakable quality to the work."

~ Alan Watts (1915-1973)

http://www.bonsaiswap.com/

rockm

"Hmmmm. bondo pots Now there's an idea, I imagine one would have to build some type of frame to build the bondo up onto to,...anyhow I will not be trying bondo pots,i'm pretty sure"

You're just going to continue trying to find a magic clay and/or fool around with trying to harden sculpey in your Amana range. Give me a break

Bondo has been used as a filler for old bonsai wood for years. I've used it myself to fill in the interiors of rotting trunks to give living wood some support. I've found it to be durable, workable, paintable, sandable, cheap and available.

Yeah, you have to build a frame to hold onto it, but you have to do the same for cimint fondu--or regular cement--to get any tensile strength. If you don't build a form for the polymers or any other slab/pot that's of any size, like over 8 inches, it will crack or break completely when you pick it up.

Joanie

If you make pots from bondo, please keep latex gloves on your hands, and don't expose the baby to the fumes at all. Bondo and other types of epoxys, etc, can be stealth health hazards. I am now allergic to a whole range of epoxy products because they seemed harmless when they first came out, but enough exposure to them causes problems that you must live with for the rest of your life. Don't let the bondo get on your skin, and if you sand it you MUST wear a good mask and go outside, so that the dust doesn't get brought into the house. Shake off your clothes, etc. too. Just because it doesn't burn your skin, or itch, or discolor your skin when you use it, you might be tempted to get careless. Don't.

The best way to go about making bonsai pots is to join a pottery class. Ask at your local community college, see if you can come in as a helper etc. if you can't afford the tuition. See what you can arrange with the teacher. Real pottery has such a wonderful feel, so many possibilities, so much range and difference, that anything else will be only second best. Learning about real clays will give you insights that open horizons, and can become a lifetime passion.

Joanie

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zen

Great feedback on the topic, I may try bondo afterall,...LOL
There is a place in Athens called Good Dirt that has classes, I will tryto get in contact with them about what I can work out there, maybe some imaging work in barter. Thanks again for the replies.

__________________
"Although profoundly "inconsequential," the Zen experience has consequences in the sense that it may be applied in any direction, to any conceivable human activity, and that wherever it is so applied it lends an unmistakable quality to the work."

~ Alan Watts (1915-1973)

http://www.bonsaiswap.com/

zen

Any one tried carving bricks into pots?

__________________
"Although profoundly "inconsequential," the Zen experience has consequences in the sense that it may be applied in any direction, to any conceivable human activity, and that wherever it is so applied it lends an unmistakable quality to the work."

~ Alan Watts (1915-1973)

http://www.bonsaiswap.com/

Joanie

Bricks are terra cotta, which is porous, so they would be similar to a terra cotta pot. They would rather quickly degrade, and accumulate salts. Carving soft lava rock would be much more long lasting. You can carve soft lava rock with just a chisel and hammer (and goggles!)

Joanie

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