Cement slabs - bonsaiTALK Community

5-Jan-2006	#21
ChrisM bonsaiTALK Master Chief Join Date: Jan-2004 Location: norton, massachusetts Country: usa USDA Zone: 6 AHS Heat Zone: 4 Posts: 1,155	thanks for the answer dale. off to finish the wood one i started then figure out what to do next. chris __________________ A bonsai is like a good marriage.You commit, for better or for worse, till death do you part. I DO!!!

Sponsor Message	Cement slabs
Advertisement Forum Sponsor	<a href='http://adserver.bonsaitalk.com/adclick.php?n=ac8bc944' target='_blank'><img src='http://adserver.bonsaitalk.com/adview.php?what=zone:4&n=ac8bc944' border='0' alt=''></a>

5-Jan-2006

#22

TreeBay

Tips:5¢ Advice:Free

*MODERATOR GROUP*

Join Date: Aug-2001

Location: Silicon Valley

Country: USA

USDA Zone: 9

AHS Heat Zone: 4

Posts: 9,745

Quote:

Originally Posted by patmac

I've wanted to try making some crescent or scoop pots using the ciment fondu that Su Chin Ee talks about in her book "Creating Bonsai landscapes".

But I can't find the Lafarge Ciment Fondu anywhere locally. I did find another product called hydraulic cement by Unitex that I think might work. But I'd rather stick with something that has been proven to work. Any input anyone could share would be very appreciated.

I like the small scoop Dale! I have a Chinese Elm that needs a home just like that.

Patrick

Here's the manufacturer site has with a picture of the bag.
http://www.lcainc.com/fondu.html
I am sure they can hook you up with their nearest distributor

Lafarge Calcium Aluminates,
LCAinfo@aluminates.lafarge.com
1316 Priority Lane
Chesapeake, VA 23324
Phone (757) 284-3200,
Fax (757) 284-3333

__________________

Want to be a seller on bonsaiAUCTIONS? Get authorized today!

bonsaiTALK: Over 100,005.36 Megabytes Served this Month!

5-Jan-2006	#23
patmac Anticipating to slow time Join Date: Apr-2005 Location: Northeast Kingdom,Vermont Country: USA USDA Zone: 4 AHS Heat Zone: 4 Posts: 287	Thanks for the link Matt I sent them an email requesting some information. Patrick

5-Jan-2006	#24
TreeBay Tips:5¢ Advice:Free *MODERATOR GROUP* Join Date: Aug-2001 Location: Silicon Valley Country: USA USDA Zone: 9 AHS Heat Zone: 4 Posts: 9,745	I was just touching up the wiki entry on Ciment Fondu and I decided to do a search on Ciment Fondu Bonsai. One of the first that popped up was this older bonsaiTALK thread. http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/showthread.php?t=13191 It seems to be happening with increasing frequency as the forum ages - trying to research a topic and getting redirected back to yourself! __________________ Want to be a seller on bonsaiAUCTIONS? Get authorized today! bonsaiTALK: Over 100,005.36 Megabytes Served this Month!

6-Jan-2006

#25

patmac

Anticipating to slow time

Join Date: Apr-2005

Location: Northeast Kingdom,Vermont

Country: USA

USDA Zone: 4

AHS Heat Zone: 4

Posts: 287

I sent an email to LaFarge requesting information about where to buy Ciment Fondu and why I was looking for it. I also asked permission to post his response here for others who might be intrested.

Quote:

Patrick,

Thanks for enligtening me on the use of Fondu in the bonsai segment. We
get occasional requests for our product from this group of artists and have
never understood why you just didn't use Portland cement. It seems that
because of the thin sections you need the extra strength and for working
ease you need a faster hardening product. Portland cement crystallizes
water, just like Calcium Aluminate Cement, but it takes 28 days to reach
the same level of strength as CAC does in 1 day. Also, because Fondu has
better natural durability to the environment, it is a good sculpting
material.

We make 5 grades of CAC that are different colors which all harden in the
same quick way.

Fondu - dark brown
Secar 41 - lighter brown
Secar 51 - closer to grey
Secar 61 - buff
Secar 71 - white

The hard part for us is distributing the small volumes requested by this
segment. We are set up for business to business sales and normally ship
full truckload or rail car quantities to customers who make specialty
mortars and concretes using our cements.

One solution may be to find a "bonsai" retailer who may be interested in
purchasing a pallet and then shipping the required smaller quantities to
interested users. You guys would have to create the demand with a favorite
retailer to get them interested in this route.

Another idea would be to buy from one of our customers who may be nearby
but would also have to be willing to resell the cement. This would be a
case by case solution with variable results.

We can send out small samples to interested people free of charge, but its
probably not enough to keep up with your activities.

Another idea would be to buy one of the rapid hardening products made by
our customers.

http://www.quikrete.com/catalog/Fas...pairMortar.html
http://www.quikrete.com/catalog/Fas...hrinkGrout.html

I'm not sure if one of these would have the right texture or color, but
they should be readily available at any Lowe's or Home Depot. They would
satisfy your early strength and long term durability requirements. If you
can'f find this brand, let me know which brands are regionally available
and I could help with product selection.

No problem to publish this information on the website. Maybe if we work
together we can find a solution for all the bonsai sculptors out there!

There are a few books from Europe published about sculpting with Fondu and
we do know of sculptures done in North America with Fondu. It seems that
the general public in Europe know a lot more about Fondu and therefore
there is a demand for it to be in the retail market. Doing a quick
internet search I found the following sculptures fairly quickly

http://www.sculpture.org/portfolio/...ptor_id=1000061
http://www.angelahunter.co.uk/page5.html

Here are links to books that I know of but I believe they are hard to get a
hold of.

http://www.tiranti.co.uk/data/ASP/s...m.asp?ItemID=55
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...3577828-6647138

If the latter is out of print, I do have a rough pdf version.

Charles Alt
757-284-3256

6-Jan-2006	#26
TreeBay Tips:5¢ Advice:Free *MODERATOR GROUP* Join Date: Aug-2001 Location: Silicon Valley Country: USA USDA Zone: 9 AHS Heat Zone: 4 Posts: 9,745	Thanks for posting this. The first time I read the intro paragraph seemed to be a suggestion to use Portland Cement, but now I understand that Charles was expressing that you had demystified why bonsai folks weren't using portland cement. These alternatives like the Quickcrete products I have seen for sale in 10-lb bags at most hardware stores. It's interesting that they're made with the LaFarge material. Regards, Matt __________________ Want to be a seller on bonsaiAUCTIONS? Get authorized today! bonsaiTALK: Over 100,005.36 Megabytes Served this Month!

6-Jan-2006	#27
Dale Cochoy Old Bonsaiman-new pots Join Date: Dec-2002 Location: Hartville, Ohio Country: USA USDA Zone: 5 AHS Heat Zone: ? Posts: 2,679	We make 5 grades of CAC that are different colors which all harden in the same quick way. Fondu - dark brown This is what I used, but did still add colorant to get a nice dark brown. Another idea would be to buy from one of our customers who may be nearby but would also have to be willing to resell the cement. This would be a case by case solution with variable results. This is how I obtained it. By the bag from a Cleveland distributor. Another idea would be to buy one of the rapid hardening products made by our customers. http://www.quikrete.com/catalog/Fas...pairMortar.html http://www.quikrete.com/catalog/Fas...hrinkGrout.html I wonder about these. Quick-hardening repair stuff never seems to hold up well, at least that I've seen. Ciment fondue doesn't setup that fast, in fact i could recoat every night during a week. Plus, I've never seen it used thus far, could be something to that? Since it's not new. Dale __________________ ________________________________ If you want to be Different.... You have to DO something Different! __________________________________________ Some people NEVER take the time to do a job right the first time.... but, they always seem to make the time to do it over again... ____________________________________________ Dale Cochoy Wild Things Bonsai Studio Yakimono no Kokoro Bonsai Pottery Hartville, Ohio

31-Jan-2006

#28

patmac

Anticipating to slow time

Join Date: Apr-2005

Location: Northeast Kingdom,Vermont

Country: USA

USDA Zone: 4

AHS Heat Zone: 4

Posts: 287

I was in the mood to create something this afternoon. So I made another cement slab. This might be the design I have been striving to achieve for my forest. Maybe

Patrick

Attached Images

IMG_1308.JPG (72.1 KB, 46 views)

31-Jan-2006	#29
pootsie The Cat's Apprentice *MODERATOR GROUP* Join Date: May-2004 Location: Columbus o-HI-o Country: USofA USDA Zone: 6 AHS Heat Zone: 5 Posts: 3,065	Patrick: A very nice design, IMHO. Great visual interest. I love the little fiddly bits around the fjords. Can I call you Slartibartfast? pootsie __________________ p.s. My cat is a bonsaiTALK Master. Columbus Bonsai Society

31-Jan-2006	#30
patmac Anticipating to slow time Join Date: Apr-2005 Location: Northeast Kingdom,Vermont Country: USA USDA Zone: 4 AHS Heat Zone: 4 Posts: 287	Well Pootsie,Norway it's not! But I'm almost there.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Plastic Slabs, good idea or not?	weeijk	Pots & Containers	37	27-May-2007 07:51 AM
Slabs	Dutch	General	7	1-Dec-2004 05:46 PM
slabs by Joe Day	Ron Martin	Pots & Containers	9	26-Nov-2004 08:54 PM
[IBC] slabs	Rodger Kessler	REC.ARTS.BONSAI	20	30-Jun-2004 01:00 AM
Cement Pots Rocks?	LivingArt	General	1	18-Aug-2003 03:36 AM

	Thread Tools	Display Modes
bonsaiTALK Hint: Did you know you can double click any bonsai term on this page for its definition?