Update On Cast-offs.

FredL

TB,

I think that what you are doing is very, very interesting. It seems to me that the difference between "good" material and "poor" material is how close it is to a completed, mature, good quality bonsai and how easy it is to imagine the operations required to make the transition. There is nothing wrong with any of the material, but the first two trees are obviously closer to maturity than the last two, The last two require more time and operations that are harder to imagine in their present condition than the first two. My own opinion is that you've done exactly the right thing with all the trees, except for the forest, which has been composed of trees that need to grow to a larger size before being used for a forest of larger scale. I agree totally with your intention to hollow out the Beech and think that in time it could be very nice indeed.

Best regards, Fred

Advertisement

Emperor Fish

Chris,

Your first beech leaning into the wind really appeals to me and has some real movement to it. There are only two things that I'd consider:

1. Wiring the first branch more toward the horizontal. I think this may make the movement and perception of it being blow about all the better.

2. The pot. But you know that already.

The rowan group could really be improved by changing the positions of the trees and eliminating the crossing trunks. However, the pot looks a good choice.

Good luck with the big beech - who knows, this one may surprise you in a couple of years.

All the best,

Fish.

__________________
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill.

HEALTH WARNING: Engage brain fully, before typing into keyboard.


"We are the average gamers and we'll kill you badly. There'll be no finesse. no fancy tricks, no inventive attacks, just 2 whole smg clips and a rain of 'nades."

bnsaijim

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FredL
[B]TB,

I think that what you are doing is very, very interesting. It seems to me that the difference between "good" material and "poor" material is how close it is to a completed, mature, good quality bonsai and how easy it is to imagine the operations required to make the transition.

Fred,

There is an adage about making silk purses from sows ears.

The finest product is less critical in bonsai since so many are after the process.

This is, however no excuse for an erosion of standards. You have to distinguish between things, however. There is "material", there is "prebonsai", then there is "bonsai".

When referring to material, good is good, poor is poor. while they are ranges, there's really no need for "quotes". It is highly measurable. Does a piece possess enought qualities that will allow it further successful development into a miniature tree, with the impression of age, if bonsai techniques are applied.

The quality may depend on species, style, etc. This variant has wonderful characteristics for black pine bonsai- very small needles, turtle shell bark.... This is poor for a literati but as an excellent formal upright, etc.

Good material can be made into great bonsai. Poor material generally must be developed into good material then into good bonsai. This last might involve concurrent efforts, and it very often requires very different techniques. Sometimes a good bonsia must return to whence it came- some degree of material...

I've sat (lirerally) between an excellent artist and an excellent grower of "potensai" for 4 days. Try it, the differences will be pointed out to you...

The material is somewhat absolute; the ambiguity lies in the artist. He chooses the material, either knows techniques or not. If the material was good, he finds the prebonsai within, then develop a (hopefully) fine finished bonsai. If this does not happen it's not the material it's probably the person handling it...

As for these trees,

Am I the only one that is getting a procumbens juniper picture, not a beech?

The forest speaks to me if I put myself within it's floor- a wild little grove of twisted trunks. Very cool! If I take wider perspective - it needs development to look like TREES- perhaps place it in a larger pot, or simply a matter of time... and I think I see a crossing trunk that disrupts...

Jim
TX

bnsaijim

This is really bizarre because now I've gotten the proper pictures...

Jim

FredL

Jim I usually find your comments very enlightening but I'm not getting them this time. When I started reading your comments, I thought you were about to rake me over the coals, but as I read further, I thought you were agreeing with me. By the time I came to the end, I wasn't sure what you were saying.

I think I'm getting too personally involved. Were you just making some observations stimulated by my comment that really weren't in direct response to it at all? My thought was that something can be made of most material. Some takes longer than other. Some, a lot longer and a lot of people, for good reason, don't want to fool with material like that. And some simply needs different hands and view than mine to get it to what it could be.

I don't believe the silk purse/sow's ear adage is particularly relevant to Bonsai. Maybe you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but, if you're a competent leather worker, you might be able to make a mighty fine Pig Skin Purse with such material.

I may be wrong, but that's my view and I'm stuck with it!

Best regards, Fred

bnsaijim

Fred,

I was not intending to attack you, but I was however trying to philosophize on your points.

I think part of our confusion lie in definitions/semantics.

Discussion of philosophy, politics and religion always ruffle feathers so, yes, you might take umbrage at the end but I need to compose my thoughts so they make sense then we can debate lively. ;^)

I'll get back to you soon!

Jim
TX