Trident Coming Along...

bonsaibeginner

Here is a photo of my trident. I bought it not too long ago. While the tree itself seems to be in great shape, I have questions about styling. The seller obviously took good care of it, but I don't think he used very exact styling techniques. Lately, I have been removing shoots that I didn't think should necessarily be there. SOme of the branching is also overcrowded, and I've been trying to fix that as well. Any suggestions wouild be greatly appreciated.
I also have another question. One of the books I have says to remove deformed leaves/burned leaves. (Trident leaves with only two points or which grow strongly on one side of the leaf and not well on another. I've been cutting these off. Does this count as leaf pruning? Should I stop and just let them grow? I don't want to accidentally leaf-prune and drain my tree in the process. Any advice would be welcome.

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Larry

looks like theres a lot of empty space after that first branch at left. It dopesnt look like theres any sign of budding sites either so would need a heavy chop to regain a leader.
Or you could thin out whats there and go for a literati.

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bonsaibeginner

thanks for the virt on the literati, but it's not really what I'm going for. Actually, you are right about the empty space, but what you can't see is that there are quite a few budding sites in the empty area. At any rate, during the winter I'm currently scheming on doing a chop to the entire right side and rebuilding it so that it doesn't make such a drastic semi circle movement. But already the shoots are filling out nicely and filling in the canopy somewhat.

Larry

in that case you can chop it above that first left branch, put it in the ground and wait for things to happen, that way you'll get a really good taper!

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Carl_Bergstrom

Personally, I think you're already well on the way to a nice informal broom maple. The taper you've got already is adequate; tridents will bud back to the old internodes if pushed so you can probably develop branches in that intervening region that Larry is worried about. .

I'd be really hesitant to trunk chop per Larry's suggestion, for several reasons. First, you've already got a nice image. I don't see how trunk chopping is going to improve things short of a complete redesign - and there, you'd be better to just start with a young whip. Second, it takes a lot more than a single trunk chop and sticking it into the ground to develop convincing taper. In the absense of some sort of detailed plan (see e.g. Peter Adams' book on Japanese Maples) that kind of work is unlikely to lead to easy improvement.

With my best regards,
Carl

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bonsaibeginner

OMC -
I agree with you. I think the taper is fine. In fact, I wrote the following on a site not too long ago
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Yeah, I like the trunk on this guy a lot. Not typical for what gets oohs and ahhs from the vast majority on what tridents should look like - you know, fat, enourmous trunks tapering like an upside-down oil funnel. In fact, I really liked Mr. Pall's post about tridents, and I agreed with him 100%. For tridents, I really like the natural, graceful, normal look. The others are great, and I do admire them tremendously, but it's not for me, I'm afraid.
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I'm still hesitant to chop anything, but that'll depend on how well the shoots will eventually fill the gap in the canopy. I'm not huge on the massive trunk style with incredible taper. I think Walter Pall said it best in this link, and I completely agree with him.
here towrd the bottom, particularly the last image

in relevant part, he states:
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you know that you are touching a hot subject here. I have mentioned before that I think the trident is designed in the neoclassical style to look like a clichè bonsai according to the rules.
I think it is good craft but as a piece of art a misunderstanding. It does win major awards and gets the attention of the crowd wherever it is exhibited. It also gets appreciation by very advanced bonsai designers. If it is a piece of art it is a dead-end street in my opinion.
If I had to do a trident from scratch I wuold look at natural maples.
Here is a tyical European mountian maple in the wild.
This would be the kind of spirit that I would try to evoke.The spirit of a wild boar instad of a house-swine like my trident.
...this would then be a trident in the naturalsitic style.

It all boils down to the question: Is bonsai the art to design a little tree in a pot to look a s close as possible like a bonsai, which is an extremely idealized Japanese tree. Or is it the art to design a little tree in a pot to give the feeling of a big tree in the wilderness?

best regards
Walter Pall
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Hope this helps define what I'm aiming for.
Very Best,
Paul

Larry

of course you dont have to stick rigidly to the rules and make a bonsai that looks like a formal tree, i personally prefer the less formal styles. Ive never tried a trident so I cant really comment other than on cosmetic issues.

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Carl_Bergstrom

This is a good example of what we were discussing in the grain of salt thread. If you've never tried a trident, then why were you so self-assuredly providing horticultural advice, Larry?



Addendum: Hell, I don't mean to sound so mean. I mean, with a new baby and all you're bound to be distracted and in love like never before and so on and so forth. Totally forgivable and understandable mistake. I just did want to call attention to it, simply because I promised in another recent thread that I would do so.

Apologies for my tone,
Carl

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Larry

no problem Carl, youre the experts after all, I'm just a mere dabbler compared to you guys. I do like to try to get involved but feel i dont really know enough to contribute.

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