Road-Kill, an unfortunate Taxus... (Warning - Embedded Pics)

Black

With hopes to divert the thread from the line of it’s ethics a little bit I have preferred to wait until I have come to some development with the tree that I can share.

Christmas trees
But to get a fee things more clearer, the Christmas trees that were relocated were trees thrown to the doorstep in order for the garbage truck to pick it up. This is spread out to a week for the whole city depending n regions. Thus in about every day there is a series of trees being crushed to fit the truck.
The Christmas trees replanted were these. Thus it has been a very busy week as this week is the week that the trees are tossed away. I am not as much into the act of saving the Christmas spirit, but hopefully the tree’s.

This tree
The tree you see the photo’s of was a part of a hedge planted decades go… as you can tell from the shape it never managed to grow into the cornered shape it’s neighbouring trees had grown/pruned into. It’s life doesn’t seem to have been too promising til yet. But (for at least months I think) it has been pulled out disposing half of its roots.
It was not a Christmas tree (it only looked like a Christmas tree to the officers that stopped me I guess…) and I do not have a similar excuse to be able to say that they were “thrown away” like the other trees. And I do not intend on provoking others to do what I have done. But I have and a part of me is very happy for it.

How things work…
Well as I said earlier there was even a time I had called the attention of hedge trees in need. I was there in one of the incidents and the guy working there gave it to me after my hearing that it was to be demolished after it was replaced.
I had felt sort of rewarded for reporting it all but was short lived happiness because he had told me of what he had done to what I had calculate to be an over 40 year old hedge plant earlier before he had come there.

I too had always thought that procedure was different but it is apparently not.

Nothing against the workers on the matter… in fact a very good example is one close to where I live where they had unearthed a great group of dog roses. When I had asked the guy if I could have from the ones there, he was pretty much happy to not have o throw it away and even gave me broad advices on how I should treat it. Unfortunately the way things work are efficient on the “peoples community” part; but not the plants.
As RockM put it: “They were paid for” but that’s offically all they are to them… not something living or trying to.

Next;
Initially I thought I would nurse it for some months and then plant it back… but now I plan on buying a well gown plant to replace it with one night I think this one had enough foul memories to be returned there (Yeah and we sort of developed a bond ). And I would advise others to do the similar shall they attempt such stunts.

__________________
"I refuse to allow a disability to determine how I live my life.
I don't mean to be reckless, but setting a goal that seems a bit daunting actually is very helpful toward recovery,... "

Christopher Reeve
25 September 1952-10 October 2004

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Black

Your input was so dear to me... but please I really do not hope to stirr up a riot here...

Kong;
If you ever end up in the neighbourhood for “new year’s celebration”; pop by I have a lot of night/early morning activities on the matter.

Unfortunately it has to be such hours as people are not allowed to put their trash outside longer than 24 hours before their picking up. So they put out the trees at the oddest hours



About your urine theory…

Well it composes mostly of water, electrolytes, acid and also nitrogen.As much as water is good, the same reason you can’t water your plants with sea water similarly should mean something here. There are some boxwood underneath every tree in our street that the dogs pretty much water periodically… and they are really not getting greener nor healthier.



Of the electrolytes; I think calcium and potassium stand a chance of use but the chloride and similar tend to ruin things again.
Nitrogen… good point there. But it seems that an access dilution of ammonium tends to be toxic and thus the reason they are removed. And the way it is produced in the form of Urea with most vertebrates, it seems that it may be more harm than good. Birds in the other hand discrete it as paste to conserve water… and are more what “slow release” packages… might want to give that a try to.

Let me in on the developments you get!
I found a BOOK on how to water with Urine that you might want to dig into .

Candy;

I think you shouldn’t… or you should care to ask.


Andy;
Oh I agree… but I think I would do it again. I plan on justifying my actions soon… if nothing with "work punishment"I have rarely run from any responsability.
But for now I will am more concerned with nursing.


RockM;
Firstly; I wouldn’t give a Corpse Plant’s stench about how you do things in the US at the moment… I don’t live there.
But it is good to know that you always get bad guys that do bad things.

Secondly I am not defending stealing. I think I would have to completely agree with all you said (in a more universal manner than what it is you practice in your country).

As for the tree... well yes I have to agree that it would not apply as the best candidate for many reasons. I will mention of more of the problems in my next post wich I hope to reserve only on the tree and not it’s history.
I wish I had a photo of how it was first... but I don't. It was not this apreciatable.
They will be very happier with a healthier nursery tree I plan to get them in return.

The ethics… I have never in my life possessed anything I can not justify. I shall take official steps.
I would be pretty stupid to write all this down otherwise. I could have just said “I found it in the forest”. But lying is not my game. Hasn’t been and won’t ever.

And lastly… I STRONGLY disagree with the needless statement of “Steeling something worth stealing” (WTF!!!).
I am of the "stupid" kind that do not ask a guy drowning what his profession is; what his criminal record is; how his family is and so forth before helping him to see if he is worth the efforts or not.
Your maybe missing the whole point here; it was a life… nothing less nothing more. The ways and goals are mixed up here I guess.

Additionally: I find the tree to be very beautiful to my apparently “low set” standards.



Thank you ALL for sparing from your time for this thread...

__________________
"I refuse to allow a disability to determine how I live my life.
I don't mean to be reckless, but setting a goal that seems a bit daunting actually is very helpful toward recovery,... "

Christopher Reeve
25 September 1952-10 October 2004

Black

Here are a few photos of a little while ago. Getting dark outside so didn’t want to wait until it was more readied.
(The one Euro is there for sense of scale)









It was a LOT more work than I had presumed for… But I think I can feel a really worthy potential sadly unprovoked for some time waiting there.
One BIG problem that gets me worried is the manner the wood is softer than I am accustomed to. I must admit that this is the first mature Yew that I have ever worked on… but it does not feel right.
The branches were too obedient and most parts very easy to carve out.


For the rest it was more a matter of removing what was a dead branch and what was not until something came out.
Instead of removing many thinner branches I prepared them to fuse into the large branch as would in many mature yews. You can see a dear few of them worked on… and yet a lot more to go.

I am in great doubts to wire it due to the softness I mentioned earlier. Up until now I have only cut branches or pinned them to another branch (save from temp wraps while working on it). I plan firstly on finishing a clean up and leaving it to rest for some time. See where shelter and feeding gets it.

I have removed the apex and set it in a propagation container (I always tend to… not always with success… But it is always worth a try). So now it measures to 60 cm high above he soil.
Its trunk is somewhat flat/oblong and measures 42mm to 68mm at it’s thickest.

Really not too sure of the “front” yet.
The reason it was planted such was my not wanting to do any modification to the roots and planting it how it best fit in the pot. But I think that I like what seems to be it’s front at the moment… only a little bit more rotated to provoke depth.

Will update;

Black

__________________
"I refuse to allow a disability to determine how I live my life.
I don't mean to be reckless, but setting a goal that seems a bit daunting actually is very helpful toward recovery,... "

Christopher Reeve
25 September 1952-10 October 2004

rockm

"I wouldn’t give a Corpse Plant’s stench about how you do things in the US at the moment… I don’t live there.
But it is good to know that you always get bad guys that do bad things...

I STRONGLY disagree with the needless statement of “Steeling something worth stealing” (WTF!!!).
I am of the "stupid" kind that do not ask a guy drowning what his profession is; what his criminal record is; how his family is and so forth before helping him to see if he is worth the efforts or not.
Your maybe missing the whole point here; it was a life… nothing less nothing more. The ways and goals are mixed up here I guess."

Seems I struck some kind of nerve here.

You seem to be conflicted about the morality of what you've done and seem intent on justfying it somehow. You knew what you were doing was wrong or you wouldn't have waited until 4:30 in the am to do it. Since I'm a lowly American I might have this wrong, but it might be a universal truth that anything you have to wait until 4:30 in the morning to do quickly, hoping not to be seen is most likely unsavory or possibly criminal. Replacing the tree would be a great thing to do.

As for steal something worth stealing and your "WTF." Don't ya get it dude? You say a life is a life, yet you have disregarded this tree's life because of some selfish fantasy about it, based on some emotional need to "save" it from something. The tree doesn't (or didn't) appear to be in any danger from the photo . Yeah, it's a scraggly looking yew that dogs pee on, but it appeared not to be really compromised. Yews are sometimes scraggly and trees get peed on sometimes. Doesn't mean they're near death. This tree doesn't appear to be near death.

You, however, have probably seriously compromised the tree's health by collecting it as you have done. Collecting a tree by yanking it out of the ground is the worst way to do it--you mention no tools in your collecting efforts, so I'm left to assume the primary method of collection was pulling the tree up by hand. That doesn't work very well. It destroys root systems pretty well though. The soil you have it planted in looks like mush--which will rot the roots. You have collected it out of season. It will probably not begin to heal itself until springtime, which leaves at least several weeks, possibly a couple of months for the roots to rot.

Your intentions may have been pure, but in practice they'll probably cost the tree it's life. Continuing rationalizations aside, if the tree dies in the coming weeks it is because of you and your actions.

Black

4:30;
I work over the internet... mostly with New Zealand. My work/living hours are unfortunately not as that of regular and I rarely sleep nights. 4:30 was when I was finished with my presentation report (Not that it is your business, nor that it is truly relevant) and it was a moments rational “Just do it” kind of thing.
I guess my saying “I was sitting at noon on a bench” got you to presume work and it was my break… my apology for the confusion; I don’t work such. It was my ‘end of day’ so to speak.

I stick to my WTF;
Greed would be running after a valuable tree. One “worth stealing”, wouldn’t it? I find your particular statement still a needless one to say.

Yanking;
I did not yank it out. You must have taken my saying “pulling” literally… my mistake. It was not yanked out. My earlier attempt of setting it upright was of mention which I have to agree shouldn’t have been such. I had not expected such ease in it.

Tools:
I used three crescent spades to boundary where its roots ended and a coal shovel to take as much of the soil with it as possible. I also had an amount of garden soil to replace the amount I had planned on taking with me. I also had a grafting elastic to hold the branches.
My efforts proved to be overkill… it appeared that less than a third of its roots were still under soil as is and were very short.
The extra tools helped me prevent damaging the others. The soil I brought along was too much, I poured all of it any ways and spread what was excess. I didn’t want to carry it back. The grafting elastic was... Well… totally useless. The branches were all dry and brittle. Gently folding them to the bag proved better.
I showed great care in my actions and in fact wasted valuable “steeling” time to stop under a better light to check up on it.

Moral bits…
Please correctly reread the posts. And try to note the meaning of “I agree” before you go on with the same things over and over.

Killing the tree…
You may know something; but your desire to get on top seems to cloud your judgement on its state, the soil and many other matters you are trying to emphasise me novice. You would be wrong.
“Near death” is not a word I neither used nor would let it be ANY reason I would want to remove a tree… EVER heard of not moving an injured guy to not traumatise him?
I think you can best relate this to an abused child being relocated…not that the child is near death in most cases. I guess again you made a wrong connection with the drowning man example. My apologies for confusing you again. Try to use your own words about being scraggy and peed on. It shall not be peed o any longer and all of it’s roots shall be under ground.

It is not the healthiest I have seen… I hope it shall not die. And I will try to not let it.


Enough now?
I would LOVE to hear why the tree may be so soft shall you have answers… No pruning has been done save from removing dried branches.
Else please private message me instead or open another thread if you wish to talk more over what seems to get more of your interest.



BonsaiTalk members;
This thread seems to be promising to get ugly… My apologies if it has upset anyone as well as RockM it was not intended.
Better I don’t post any updates and leave it?
Or would you be interested in the tree’s development (if I don’t kill it as mentioned in the above post)?

Black

__________________
"I refuse to allow a disability to determine how I live my life.
I don't mean to be reckless, but setting a goal that seems a bit daunting actually is very helpful toward recovery,... "

Christopher Reeve
25 September 1952-10 October 2004

Bonsaifreak

If my next door neighbor's trees is mistreated and it looks as it could die from it and I go and take it in the middle of the night, that would be considered robbing or stealing a tree. That is here, in Europe, in Africa, in Asia and in Australia (suspect in the North and South Pole too). I sympathize with your feelings for the tree. Believe me, I have covetted other people's trees as well. Still, I have been restrained enough (and thanks to the advice of several BT members) to sit tight and avoid committing an unlawful act.

Collecting would be so much more fun if it wasn't for laws protecting private property. Unfortunately, as bonsaists we have a duty to respect them just as we wouldn't want anybody coming in in the middle of the night and take one of our trees.
Sorry, just my pinch of salt...

__________________
"Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."
Mark Twain

kingkong

Black...try not to allow information on a web site bog you down and or take it personaly. The beauty of these sites is you can tell or remark to a thought in a straightforward way. No bs to sift thru to get at the meat of the matter. Some get a tree critique...some get a moral critique. Judgments expressed mean no harm to anyone. They are just opinions on a specific topic.

anttal63

black how you doin; lets get back to the tree. personally i like it and believe it is workable. there is nothing there that cant be fixed with some carving and tlc.

i look forward to what you do with this tree and i totally endorse your actions!

you sound like you know what you are doing and come across as having integrity.

good luck with it man.

__________________
Antonio . . .
------------------------------------

Bonsaifreak

Deja-vu all over again...


http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/f14/tho...tree-17611.html

Just wanted to proof that I am sympathetic with your emotions towards the tree....Been there and THOUGHT that (not done that).

BTW. The moral police has not changed a bit in two years

Cheers.

__________________
"Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."
Mark Twain