Panel tree #1 Prostrata Juniper

bonsaial1

This tree has been in training for 7 years. It about 25 years old. It is currently in the Collection at the Lee Institute for Japanese art. The tree was recently restyled by Marco Invernizzi. Where should it go?

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Ashbarns9999

This is where I would take it and place it in a Dale drum pot.



Ash

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SiNguyen

Nice tree BonsaiAl! It appears essentially finished to me. The low hanging first branch is perfect. I do agree with Ash about changing the pot. I think a heavier looking pot , like a drum pot, would be better. Something slightly narrower and taller would work.

Si

Graydon

Here's my take Al, for what it's worth. (note - same post as in the face the elders thread)

First the stand - it's not working in my opinion - however I'll be the first to admit I don't know the rules of display. I would think that the tree would look better on a less refined and more rustic display fixture. I would also not center the pot on the stand. Nice stand though.

As far as the tree - are you presenting the front in this shot? I ask as the stand is not square to the camera so I assume the tree is not as well. That may effect my next few points. I like the shari and the left hand jins. The right jin seems to conflict with the branch above it - I would like negative space between the foliage pads and jin. I would consider working the shari up and to the left to include the bottom left jin - as if the lowest left branch gave way under tremendous weight and tore it's self off taking the bark to the base.

More refinement on the pads would be nice. The apex is a little soft but that may be corrected with some wiring details. Again - I would contemplate removal of some of the conflicting branch on the right or perhaps just cleaning it up with some wiring.

It's kind of hard to point out everything with just one shot, and not a very high resolution one at that.

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tachigi

I take your word for it Al, but find it hard to believe that Marco styled this tree. The most obvious thing that jumps out at me is the lack of refinement in the foliage pads. The wiring job IMO just ain't that great. The lack of separation and refinement in the clouds of foliage isn't there, hell they don't even looked groomed. I like the bottom branch but think it needs to be brought around to front a little. It gives me the feel as it is almost facing away from the viewer. Now as Graydon said, if this is not the front, then everything is subject to change a little. The shari on the front is to "fat" for the lack of a better word. With a trunk that lacks taper, if the shari narrowed as it ascended it would possibly enhance the appearance of taper, or the very least fit the image. I think the jins also fall into this category also. They need to loose some volume so they are in more proportion to the tree. I won't even comment on the pot or stand because I think this tree is far from a finished image, I think this tree is still in the conceptual stage. Will probably make a fair bonsai someday down the road.

Thanks AL for the images you got the gray matter moving this AM, a little on the slow side, but its moving.

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agraham

Al,I posted my opinion of the tree elsewhere.If no one minds,I'll just cut and paste ............

.........it looks unfinished,not groomed.The foliage pads are messy.I might display a tree in this condition,as would many other Americans..(we don't know any better ).but,it's not the best it could be.The jins aren't pleasing to my eyes.I think I would do away with the lower left one and the one on the right..The lower one,while it may be in a natural position(nature can be very random)goes against the flow of the tree.It doesn't add tension...it just looks out of place.The one on the right is too thick and detracts from the upper left one,which extends the flow of the trunk into negative space.Even the jin that I would keep looks unfinished..like a stub someone whittled on with a knife.Other than that,it's very nice stock and a tree I would love to own.

edit to add


oops...I left out this part which I wrote before I knew who had styled the tree....
You could tell me that this tree was styled by Boon or Walter Pall or either of the Marcs you mentioned.But it wouldn't change my mind about the tree...it is what it is to my eyes.




andy

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weeijk

This will be a good bonsai one day, but.....

My eyes don't like the jins on the left, both of them should go.
The right jin should be made a little smaller, than it will be ok.
The shari on front wasn't really neccesery, but does at some to the overall picture.
For me mostly the top is too heavy, I would make ik more "flytrough" as Walter would say. It really doesn't look like a Walter Pall tree to me.

Please Al give us some more info on this tree,

W.

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agraham

Hey Wessel,

I thought about the jin on the right.My first thought was that it should be the only one to stay.But then,it seemed redundant to me.Too closely following the line of the branch directly above it and definately too thick.

Funny,I didn't even notice the shari.It looks like an afterthought,something to add interest.Perhaps,it was necessary to hide a pruning scar?

andy

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bonsaial1

A word about critique. I am a:
Proponent of tree critique, it helps in the long term goals of the tree by recieving differing ideas on how a tree might be improved from the perspective of someone not so attached to the tree.

I am an:
Opponent of doing a critique by internet or pictures. A good critique must take place in front of the tree to see depth and perspective.

Graydon, thanks but were doing a tree critique. Not a stand critique or photo or display critique. I know the photo's are imperfect and the stand is wrong. Thats why I just spent 700.00 on a new camera. As far as the musings thus far I'll deal with them as we go along.

First of all I was shocked that no one asked any probing questions. A proper critique can not be done without the owner there to answer questions unless the tree is offered as final and finished. This one was not. No one asked when Marco worked on it, though I said recently. Well recently is relative in regards to the age of the tree. Marco worked on it 4 years ago.

tachigi, I don't understand what you find so hard to believe about Marco styling this tree. I saw it when he was done. It did not look like this. John at Vonsgardens had some junipers styled my Marco recently, like three months ago. I wonder what they might look like if John does not keep them up.

Another clue that could have been solved with a probing question was the fact that I told you it had been donated to a collection. How long ago. Did it suffer for those 4 years and then was given away because it had lost its appeal. Maybe.

Andy, The tree isn't groomed because its not finished yet. It was said that it was in training for 7 years, and still is. This tree was displayed because it is in the care of a collection and was showed because thats what we do, ready or not, the collection expects it. The collection is getting better and we get endowment trees all the time. We just recieved some trees from Sherwin Animoto's wife and they will properly cared for as well, but may be displayed whether done or not.

This tree was styled by Marco and then it sat and not much more was even done to enhance what was done in the initial styling. There's a good tip right there. Don't let someone do work to your tree untill you have the knowledge to keep it up or enhance it.

The jins on the tree are as they were when Marco removed the branches. the jin stubs were left long to be carved down in the future or removed all together if not needed. This is a good rule of thumb when remmoving branches on any tree deciduous or juniper alike.

The shari on the front lower trunk is actually natural, or as natural as one could contrive I guess. There was a branch near the bottom and it had been attacked by borers. The branch was rotton and it actually broke off and stripped some bark in the process. The shari on the branch near the top was also due to borer damage.

This tree before Marco saw it was more upright. Marco leaned the tree significantly to help introduce a more feminine image. The look of a more gracefull literati like image suits the tree more than it's past shape. I agree about the more round pot and I think the gracefull look of the canopy is fitting for the tree. I really like it and I think that with the more careful attention it recieves now it will be great in the near future. I did work further this last summer on this tree and it is coming along fine. This photo is from last April. Here is the shot I cropped the tree from so you can see I didn't have much to work with. The reason the tree is angled is due to the lens on the camera. Anything but an SLR camera will fisheye all large display photo's.

One final thing, I take many photo's a year of some very beautiful trees. Anyone that has been on this forum for any amount of time can attest to that. What I have found is that what is seen or not seen on a tree in real life can somehow magically appear in a photo. I can't tell you how many times I have come home from a great exhibit and placed my photo's on the computer and said, wow where did that ugly jin come from, I didn't see that at the exhibit. Thats the problem with a critque on a forum. Its just bad all the way around.

I am also amazed at the idea that a critique is to find as many things wrong with a tree as possible. "I have to mention all the things wrong so everyone will think I know something. I have to do it first because if someone beats me to it, I will have nothing to say and I will look bad."

Be bold and find something good about the tree. All is not bad. This tree is in very good health, (now) and has a bright future. Anyone can find the bad things in a tree. It takes a real artist to find the good and beauty.

Good grooming, Al

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