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24-Aug-2007
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#11 |
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Bonsai Doer
 
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John, in the case of this tree, whats your take on the branch size to trunk size. It seems that the branches will all be fairly large and out of scale with the trunk. While the trunk looks good, is it possible to regrow the branches from say, stubs? I mean green ended stubs.
I have always shyed away from material like this because it seemd like far too long a project bringing everything back into scale. Is it possible and how long would it take to build an even average bonsai? Cheers, Al
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If you can't be a player...be an athletic supporter! |
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Sponsor Message
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I call it...Pinezilla |
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Forum Sponsor
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24-Aug-2007
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#12 |
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AHH! Change is...GOOD :)
Join Date: May-2007
Location: Ora, Laurens Cty, SC
Country: USA
USDA Zone: 7a
AHS Heat Zone: 8?
Posts: 280
 
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Thanks John for the advice. Yes, Pruning back is what I want to do first. Just didn't know how far I could cut. Some branches have needles all over, some here and there, and others with none except where there are whorls or the ends. Being that this one was just left to growing and growing, much of the needles within and below had died. I cleaned out alot of needles that accumululated around the lowest branches and in the pot. As far as branch thicknesses go just from me looking them over my guesses would be ranging from 1/4" to 3/8" upto 1" to 1 3/8" maybe. After tomorrow at the meeting I attend, along with Wayne, I should get a better idea of branch sizes.
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25-Aug-2007
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#13 |
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Needle Puller
 
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In SC, I would think that a heavy prune in late February would be a good starting point. Leave the one branch that represents the trunk at the top, remove all branches (except for the trunk) down to the level of the future tree, in this case 18-24" tall. then shorten the lower branches by 1/2 or so- being sure that there are plenty of good green needles left on each branch. The following year reprune the branches back to an inch or so beyond interior buds. This will allow you to use the trunk and then grow all new branches with foliage close in to the trunk.
Al, I think I would graft (not that I am a good grafter at all) on branches where i want them, however that is a formidible task (mentally) for someone just starting to work on pines, so i would recommend using the branch reduction technique. 2 years to new branches. John
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"Wiring is simple; However, it is not easy to do it right" Boon |
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25-Aug-2007
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#14 |
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bonsaiTALK Master Chief
 
Join Date: Apr-2006
Location: Lakeland - Florida
Country: United States
USDA Zone: 9A
AHS Heat Zone: 11
Posts: 1,004
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A pine like this one is a perfect example of the need to be able to graft. If this were my tree (and I have several like it myself) I would start reading up on grafting. I would look in to purchasing a good knife, some water stones and some grafting tape. I would identify some unwanted branches and when the time is appropriate in your area I would bud graft 12 scions removed from the end of the branches to an inner area that needs some help.
Doing this would help you get comfortable with the process of grafting. Mastering this process will help you build a better tree period. You would never have to hope for back budding where you need it - you simply graft it there. There will be failures with your grafts. The more you do the better you get. I guess the good thing about bud grafting for design is that if the graft fails the scion dies but you can always attempt it again next year in almost the same spot.
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There is unrest in the Forest
There is trouble with the trees For the maples want more sunlight And the oaks ignore their pleas. |
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25-Aug-2007
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#15 |
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AHH! Change is...GOOD :)
Join Date: May-2007
Location: Ora, Laurens Cty, SC
Country: USA
USDA Zone: 7a
AHS Heat Zone: 8?
Posts: 280
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Pinezilla has been attacked...
I took Pinezilla to our monthly study group/meeting. Taking into consideration the advice from John(Vonsgardens) and getting with Wayne, John Green(owner of GreenThumbBonsai) and Todd(sorry can't remember his last name) I commenced to cutting Pinezilla back. Todd came there to demonstrate on doing deadwood work on a shimpaku. He was very informative, friendly, helpful. Hope to get to meet him again. Back to Pinezilla. I'll post 4 more pics(in this post) of the tree before I cut it back and then 5 pics(next post) of after the tree got attacked LOL. Oh, the guy with the hat on is Todd in one of the pics and the man in the white t-shirt is John Green in some of the others. Everyone there liked its size and its trunk after it was exposed. Enjoy all
 ps: John & Graydon once I take the grafting workshop this fall(hope its still on) I will see about grafting anywhere on this tree. But even that is still a long ways off. With this one it's going to take ALOT of time working with. |
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25-Aug-2007
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#16 |
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AHH! Change is...GOOD :)
Join Date: May-2007
Location: Ora, Laurens Cty, SC
Country: USA
USDA Zone: 7a
AHS Heat Zone: 8?
Posts: 280
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Here are the after picsOh one more thing. The BEFORE pics DO NOT coincide with the AFTER pics. For example: side 1 BEFORE pic is NOT the same side as side 1 AFTER pic. I just took 4 side shots turning the table 1/4 turns on the before and after pics. Hope that is understandable.
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26-Aug-2007
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#17 |
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Needle Puller
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ALright, good start. Remember that it won't be drinking quite as much as before. Now, let it sit until it buds back really well and begins to grow well. John
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"Wiring is simple; However, it is not easy to do it right" Boon |
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27-Aug-2007
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#18 |
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AHH! Change is...GOOD :)
Join Date: May-2007
Location: Ora, Laurens Cty, SC
Country: USA
USDA Zone: 7a
AHS Heat Zone: 8?
Posts: 280
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Any advice on a really good feeding regimen? I still have about 3 months of warm weather here and if we have another mild winter maybe longer. I have the following fertilizers: Miracle-Gro, Osmocote slow release, Fish Emulsion. Sorry that I can't remember teir NPK ratios. I just got up about 20 minutes ago LOL. My idea is to use MG at half strength every 3 days. Uses 1 tablespoon for every gallon of water. half would be half a tablespoon for every gallon of water.
Also, would any of these ferts harm or kill mycorhyzza? Just needing to know before I apply this fungi to this pine and all my other pines. Thanks. |
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27-Aug-2007
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#19 |
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Needle Puller
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Fertilize fairly lightly with anything, osmocote could be best, just remember on hot days with moisture it will release NPK at a much faster rate than it does on cool days. You will need to maintain discipline and reduce the numbers of buds at the points you want to keep them to two. they will frequently pop in masses Development requires discipline.
Best of luck, John
__________________
"Wiring is simple; However, it is not easy to do it right" Boon |
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27-Apr-2008
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#20 |
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AHH! Change is...GOOD :)
Join Date: May-2007
Location: Ora, Laurens Cty, SC
Country: USA
USDA Zone: 7a
AHS Heat Zone: 8?
Posts: 280
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Proper time for grafts/grafting...
Well its been awhile and PZ has gone through more changes. The pics were taken back in late Feb. I root pruned, the roots were all small and hair-like. Not many thick roots(half inch plus). I removed some unwanted branches with 2 I made jins(not finished). And I repositioned the trunk to a more upright position. I will post pics Tuesday of what it looks like currently.
Now onto my question/questions. After reading an article in Bonsai Today #91 titled "Five years in the life of a Japanese black pine" it shows where they graft some scions for branches onto the tree. It got me thinking about PZ. When is the best time to graft for JBP? Can you graft more than small buds or scions? Can you graft a entire branch? I ask that question after reading another article in another issue where instead of cutting off and discarding a branch graft to another area of the tree. This article showcased a Acer palmatum. This scenario involved grafting root stock to the branch to be removed, once graft takes well cut off the branch, drill a hole elswhere on the trunk and insert cut off branch(still on root stock) into the hole and seal with putty. Can anyone point me in the right direction for information specifically on JBP grafting? I'm not in a hurry to do so unless the time is NOW. It's about I started learning. Shoot yesterday at our study group I did my very first airlayer...on a JBP. Only way I'm going to learn is by doing.
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"You may have great ramification But my trunk is bigger than yours"  (what one bonsai said to another) |
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