Hornbeam - Fall 2007

constantstaticx

I liked the angle and the pot of the first pic. It was a nice composition as it was. Now I think the trunks are too straight to be realistic. Maybe a slightly smaller pot than the first one and the same angle for the samller trunk.

Tom

Edit: Also, if you could find a third tree to fit on the other side of the main trunk, that could eliminate the need for grafting on a lower branch.

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CScott

[QUOTE=constantstaticx]I liked the angle and the pot of the first pic. It was a nice composition as it was. Now I think the trunks are too straight to be realistic.


After reviewing all the photos I think Tom is right, even to the point of saying the first picture (fall 2007) has the best angle and look for the two trunks.

You said a problem with that front are the thick branches in the apex. If you take a series of pictures when the tree is leafless it may help with your decision. There is only so much you can do with the trunks, but the heavy branches on the apex can be drastically cut back and rebuilt. From what I can see of the apical branches they look long, without ramification.

Your number one priority (other than the health of the tree) is to ignore the canopy branches and find the front that looks best with the two trunks. This means the smaller trunk either comes forward or back, and is not in line with the main trunk. They need to angle away from each other, but not too drastically for this style. A little movement keeps them from looking like sticks with leaves attached. The Fall 2007 picture had all that.

Let everything grow out. In late winter 2009 you can cut the offending branches WAY back.

And I know it feels like going backwards, but if you seriously want to rebuild the top of this tree you need to pop it into a growing box for two years, just to get it healthy for the chop and preliminary branch rebuilding. I think you will be glad you did.

If it helps, every time I take one of my deciduous trees into a class, thinking I've done a great job building ramification, I leave with two thirds of the branches cut off. My teacher constantly tells me the framework comes first.

Please let me know if I've gone to far. I'm not used to being so openly opinionated about people's trees.

Carmen

mistermoyogi

Hi, Carmen:

I certainly do appreciate your interest and input regarding the composition. You have been most kind. Please refer once again to #58965. I am trying to create a natural look of two trees growing in the midst of a forest (not at the forest edge); hence I brought the angle of the trunks closer together and in the process created more of an equilateral canopy.

I don't think it would be as natural if the smaller trunk remained at more of an angle in this situation because in a forest environment there would be groups of trees growing close together. Ideally I realize there should be many more trees of various sizes in this composition to make it more effective.

My inspiration comes from the deciduous forests around us here in northern West Virginia...they are very beautiful during all seasons.

You make a very good point about regrowing the canopy at some point to better the ramification. The composition began as a five-tree grove, and obviously has necessarily changed over the years. In retrospect I should have devoted more time to initial training during the first few years. At the time I feel I was not as familiar with the species as I should have been, and the unfortunate result was the growth of some out of proportion apical branching.

Again, my thanks for your thought-provoking input.

Best regards,
Tom

CScott

I just saw the posts of this tree on the Internet Bonsai Club forum. I didn't realize you had so many responses and opinions! A lot of food for thought to chew on.

I'm looking forward to seeing its future progress.

Carmen

RJS

Glad I found this thread. I bought this Korean Hornbeam group several weeks ago. It was already on its way to being in full leaf. There are seven trees in the group. I did shorten some of the longer shoot on top but it does need a little growth to cover where the trunks had been chopped - probably last year sometime. I would appreciate suggestions, gentlemen. A couple of questions I did have though are 1) would it be too difficult to spread the trees out a little without damaging roots, and 2) would you suggest putting them in a wider/shallower pot?

Lastly, I have a singleton hornbeam that is about 3 feet tall. I was thinking about keeping it as a future specimen plant. Its about as large around as a penny or nickel, probably. Can I safely plant it in the ground and expect it to survive a Chicago winter. Or should I put it in some type of box and place it in an unheated garage for the winter? Attaching some pics.

Thank in advance.

Bob

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CScott

Hi Bob,

Since you just bought the forest a few weeks ago and it is in leaf, I would not repot or do anything major until next spring. It needs to get used to your care regimen. The "chops" are pretty minor. If you think you are going to leave them this height you can wire up a new apex on each one so the trunks don't end so abruptly. Next spring you can plant the grove in a shallow wide pot appropriate for a grove. In the meantime look at lots of grove pictures. Your trees are tall with very little taper, but it can be pulled off with the right grouping, or you may want to chop them back even farther.

Why not post a picture of the singleton hornbeam in a new thread and see what the response it? I have no idea what to do for bonsai in a place like Chicago. I was born in Kankakee, IL, but left for California when only 10 years old.
I thank my parents for the move even now, 40+ years later.

Carmen

mistermoyogi

Looks like Carmen beat me to a reply, and I certainly agree with her advice regarding your composition. Good luck with it and be sure to keep us posted.

Regards,
Tom

RJS

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RJS

Still would like to know about planting the singleton in the ground vs a grow box that can be put in the garage over winter.