First Trident Maple

jloeschner

Wow, I did not realize that it had been so long since I actually posted a tree here. As those of you who remember me know, I am relatively new to bonsai. However, I have found that this forum is a great place to learn from, and I have missed it over the past few weeks. Unfortunately, I will not be able to frequent it as much as I would like in the upcoming weeks and months, due to my school course load.
Anyway, the reason for this post is that I took a break from my school duties and went to Brussell's just outside of Memphis. I bought a Trident maple while I was there, and I would like to see what ideas the fine folks here can come up with in regards to its training.
The reason I chose it over the others was because the others were all VERY curvy, in the staked Chinese style. This tree, however, only had a minor curve to it, and looked like it would be much easier to work with in a style other than Chinese. The one thing that really bothers me about it is the reverse taper, especially around the "slingshot" branches. I think that I will eventually air-layer one, or both, of these branches off and see where it takes me.
There really aren't that many branches at this time, so I will probably be letting it just grow for the next season or two in order to see what it can offer me. Also, the nebari isn't the best in the world, but it is much better than any other tree that I have right now. For only $38, I didn't expect a world class tree, by any means. Unfortunately, I cannot afford the really great stock that Brussell has.
Since this tree was just repotted, and it is quite bare as well, I really can't do much with it immediately. However, coming up with a plan for its development would be quite beneficial while I wait to work on it. Since this tree does have a couple of areas of reverse taper, one at the first fork and another just above that fork on the main trunk, I have considered layering off the main trunk just below the first fork and starting with a fresh "stump". The stump does have some minor movement in it up to the first fork, and it might offer me the best solution. The first minor trunk from the first fork also could have some possibilities if separated from the rest of the tree. The main trunk above the first fork would have to be layered above the second fork in order to do away with all of the reverse taper.
Allright, enough of my amatuerish (sp?) babbling. Does anyone here have any suggestions for this guy? I welcome any and all points of view, and have extremely thick skin, so please be honest. However, I do ask that you take into consideration that this is the best that I can afford right now, and really want to learn something from it.

Attached Images

	Trident maple2.jpg (39.5 KB, 84 views)
	Trident maple4.jpg (30.4 KB, 46 views)
	Trident maple1.jpg (36.5 KB, 34 views)
	Trident maple3.jpg (31.1 KB, 36 views)

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BrianBay9

Well, you've got nice, gentle movement in the trunk from most angles. Try not to destroy that with your airlayer - don't go too low. Can't see the nebari. Does that help you with a choice of front?

Brian

jloeschner

Good day, Brian.

Thanks for your comments. You asked about the nebari, and I wish I could post a pic of it. Whoever repotted the tree at Brussell's did an excellent job of burying most of the top layer of roots. I have dug around, of course, and was only able to make out a little of the nebari. From what I could see, the tree has a nice radial spread, but many of the top roots tend to grow straight down after the first few centimeters. Of course, I may be wrong, but since the tree was very recently repotted, I am hesitant to grub around too much. After it has settled down and recovered from its root pruning, I will dig a little deeper to see what is what. Maybe in April or May...

The one thing I was able to tell was that the trunk flares nicely just above the roots. So, even if the nebari is less than desireable, I might be able to graft or ground layer a new one and make it look somewhat acceptable. Also, in response to your question about a front, I have chosen the first pic (19056) based on the shape of the flare at the base. The trunk's shape also factored in a little. Of course, my decision is only preliminary, and will probably change as the tree grows and I gain experience.

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bisco_bonsai

Charming little tree; I like the movement. I think it would make a nice little "feminine" rounded-style maple. Here a rough virtual, but it would require some drastic pruning. Keep us informed of where you go with it, I'd love to see how it turns out. Good luck.

All the best,
JDL

Attached Images

trident.jpg (33.6 KB, 67 views)

jloeschner

JDL,

Thanks for the "rough" virt! I actually like the way that looks. Of course, with the reverse taper in the upper trunk, it would take a long time to chop and regrow a new leader, but I think it would be worth it. I wonder if it would be possible to just remove that large branch without leaving too bad of a scar?

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cbobgo

My thought is that this is probably a little too early in this tree's life to be in a bonsai pot. If you want a tree with nice girth and taper, you will need to gro this tree out and perform sevel trunk chops over a period of several years. That would happen more rapidly in the ground, or in a larger training pot. I don't see enough reverse taper to really casue a problem. A few years of growth, with some sacrifice branches down low should eliminate that without any problem at all. I think air-layering a tree this skinny is probably a waste of time. I also think you over-paid a bit for a tree at this stage of development. You can order trees like this for around $25.

- bob

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bisco_bonsai

I don't feel I have enough experience with tridents to tell you one way or the other, however I did just ask some of the more experienced posters for suggestions on my trident, and they convinced me to cut back every branch all the way to the inital stump. From what I read and from their advice, tridents are quite prolific growers. When you cut a large branch, many adventitious braches will sprout from the cut mark. Leave these braches to grow and help close up the wound. Your stump appears to be somwhat small, so it might do well with some time in a growing box to help thicken up the trunk; this would probably also help it to recover from the shock of pruning. I would prune it hard to get your initial trunk line and then let it grow wild for while to thicken up the trunk. Then prune it back all the way to the trunk again to start developing nicely ramified branches (this is the step my trident is at in the link below). There are some great articles online to help you develop this tree, and also some great advice from the pros in the thread below. Hope some of this helps.

All the best,
JDL

http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/showthr...83&page=1&pp=15

jloeschner

Bob,

I probably did overpay for the tree, since Brussell's is the only "local" bonsai store around here. (The word "local" is quoted because Brussell's is actually about two hours from my house...) I am not too sure about ordering trees through the mail, as I would much rather see them before buying, so my choices are quite limited.

I find your reference to size quite interesting. I am not sure what you are considering "skinny", but this is actually one of my larger trees. It is about 17 inches tall, from the exposed base of the trunk, and is about 1 1/4 inches in diameter at the base. I am sure that it would be about an inch taller if I were to measure from the buried nebari, and probably wider, too. At any rate, it is not as small as it appears in its pics.

I do agree that it could stand to grow some, both in height and girth, but relationally speaking, it appears to be proportionately balanced. I do like the larger trees, but as I have stated, I simply cannot afford to buy them, and growing them takes quite a bit of time. On the other hand, this tree already has a nice "feminine" figure, and should look quite nice if it were styled in a feminine shape. After all, it is a maple, which are usually used to portray feminine styles, anyway.

As for the reverse taper, it doesn't really show that well in the pictures. Trust me, it is there. Your suggestion about the sacrifice branch is a good one, though. I should have considered that before thinking about chopping it. Duh...another newbie mistake. Since it really doesn't have many branches anyway, that suggestion actually makes more sense than lopping off half of the tree. Thanks for the tip, as well as the rest of your thoughts.

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jloeschner

Ok, you guys have convinced me. A grow box will be in the works for it as soon as my wallet, time, and the weather permit. I guess I can still work on it, and probably achieve better results, in a box.

I am wondering, though, if replanting into a grow box after having already been root-pruned and repotted into its present pot would be ok? I understand that tridents are very resilent in the root department, and that they handle "foot-mangling" quite well, but how much is too much? I guess I could always just slip-pot it, but if I am going into a grow box with it, I would really like to arrange the nebari properly.

JDL...your thread was very interesting and informative. Thank you for pointing me there. After having read it, I decided that a grow box is what my tree needs, and I have more faith in chopping my branches. I really do not expect, or want this tree to become a monster in size, but I wouldn't mind it getting a little bigger. I am still leaning towards a more feminine style, so too much girth would be undesireable. Of course, if it decides to get fat, I can always change to fit the tree...

Also, after rereading my posts, I realized that I saound a bit impatient. I stated that growing a large tree would take quite a bit of time, which seems to imply that I want an "instant" bonsai. That is not necessarily the case. I simply wanted to get the most advanced stock that I could afford without resorting to mail-order trees. Of course, this is not really "advanced" stock, but it is worlds better than starting from a sapling or seed. I know that this tree needs a good 5-10 years to become really good, if it ever does at all. That is why I asked for any and all suggestions, however drastic.

Thanks for the help...

Regards,
John

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Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

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