Cryptomeria Styling.

rowan57

Hey everyone, i had a go at styling a cryptomeria that i bought the other weeekend today, it didnt go great as it is my first time styling by myself (i have styled one other tree, but with my teacher)
The problems i have:
- Branch placement iisnt ideal, it seem to be prone to rings of branches and clumps of branches, neither of which is ideal but ive made do with what i had.
- When the tree was chopped at the top it backbudded ridiculously and the apex is very congested to wire/get into. Also, the bottom 3/4 of the tree are superb for formal upright but the apex leans to the left which is not ideal.

I have a course booked in a few weeks so i will get some help with it then but i thought id ask for your advice.

My wiring is alright, not excellent but it seems to do the job, there are a couple of bits that i need to re-wire but i can sort those out easy enough.

With the apex i had thought about chopping it down about 3 inches to lose the bit that goes off to the side. What do you all think?
Be Gentle
Thanks
Rowan

Pic1: Front
Pic2: Side
Pic4: Back

Attached Images

	Front.JPG (68.2 KB, 76 views)
	Side.JPG (59.9 KB, 43 views)
	Back.JPG (66.1 KB, 58 views)

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Emperor Fish

Hi Rowan.

Al would be proud of you walking the walk here.

I have a few comments that you may like to consider, all of them based on style and design rather than cryptomeria horticultural requirements.

Firstly, you may like to ask yourself where you see this tree growing. What climate has it faced, where does it live? To me, you have the beginnings of a tall, majestic tree, growing under no competition in the grounds of a country house. You may see it differently, and you will need to communicate what you see through your design.

So, assuming that you see what I see, I think that there are really three areas that you need to focus some attention on - I have circled them in red, yellow and green on your original front photograph for reference. I think that as it stands, you have only really done half a job on this tree.

RED:
This branch, whilst being angled down as are the other lower branches, is orientated in too much of a clockwise rotation, destroying any illusion of a larger branch with foliage. This needs to be re-positioned. You may find this easier were you to reapply the wire also in a counter-clockwise direction.

YELLOW:
This area is at odds with the lower branches, pointing upwards, rather than down. The basic structure below says 'old.' The basic structure here says 'young.' You may want to re-position these branches also.

GREEN:
Again, this area (apex) needs some attention. You do not seem to have trimmed or wired anything here. The existing branches and shoots could be wired into shape to form a domed, mature tree appearance and many of the lengthy shoots cut back.

I hope this is of some help. Your instructor will have the advantage of seeing your work in three dimensions though and it would be appropriate to consult with him/her before doing anything more.

Regards,

Fish.

Attached Images

Front1.jpg (58.2 KB, 47 views)

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rowan57

Totally, it looked really good before i styled it, when i had just removed some of the front branches it looked real nice, then it went wrong i think, i lost track of the image i had in my head.

I will follow your ideas for the branches today and then look at the apex at the weekend when i have a bit more time.

Cheers
Rowan

__________________
In literary and art criticism there are two criteria, the political and the artistic....

Words and actions should help to unite, and not divide, the people of our various nationalities

I often talk to myself because i am the only one who truly understands me.

rowan57

boy have i gone through a lot of wire today, must be about 4 rolls and i havent even detail wired, shows i think that theres hope for every newbie like me out there

I know it doesnt look great still, but i figure at least its been wired and everything so when i go on my course i can just get help straight away on the styling without having to spend a few hours wiring.

Fish, you gave me some confidence so i went ahead and re-wired a lot of it and even got upto the apex: (I cant consult my instructor before the course because he lives an hour away and i dont drive so its difficult to get there cos dad has to drive me)

Attached Images

jpeg0007.jpg (69.6 KB, 53 views)

__________________
In literary and art criticism there are two criteria, the political and the artistic....

Words and actions should help to unite, and not divide, the people of our various nationalities

I often talk to myself because i am the only one who truly understands me.

Emperor Fish

Rowan, this is a wise approach and should help your instructor to simply re-position branches. I would also do the detail wiring beforehand as well. The devil is in the detail as they say.




I really meant that you should consult him at the course, prior to doing anything, but too late now.

Things are progressing in the right direction. However, bonsai is illusion, just as a 2D painting can give us the illusion of perspective, depth and distance, we can use some tools to help us convince the viewer that our trees are magnificently large, when of course, they are not.

You still have a couple of obvious areas to address.

Firstly, the apex appears to be slightly unnatural, in that the trunk is visible from root to tip and the trunk tapers off abruptly at the top. If you think about a tree in nature, particularly an upright tree without any competition from others, it would use the complete 360 degrees around its trunk for branches and foliage. This tree is not doing this so it appears still a little odd. now, whilst I appreciate that bonsai have a front, and a bonsai without a visible trunk-line is a bush, at some point on the tree, you have to introduce some forward foliage to convince the viewer that it is a tree.

You have plenty of foliage to use at the top. If you want to be imaginative and create the desired image in your mind, but are not overly concerned with how you get there, then you can try the technique of "spaghetti wiring." Basically, you can utilise all those overly long shoots at the top at put many twists into them to get the foliage into position - you do not have to wire them directly away from the trunk. Some of the better yamadori specimens in Europe are given this technique to get the foliage in the right place. The design integrity is questionable perhaps, but the overall effect is certainly pleasing.

What would happen if you moved these shoots in the direction shown for a starter?

Regards,

Fish.

Attached Images

Front2.jpg (55.0 KB, 23 views)

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"We are the average gamers and we'll kill you badly. There'll be no finesse. no fancy tricks, no inventive attacks, just 2 whole smg clips and a rain of 'nades."

rowan57

Thankyou for your comments Fish, i will be styling a different tree on the course anyway, this was like an experimenting tree for home.

My plan for the apex is to let it grow out this year, as this tree seems to have a propensity for backbudding, then style the foliage and branching from scratch next year, the apex was very awkward to work with as it was and the branches were bady positioned so by growing it out i should be able to place branches where i want them.

The thing about your ideas is that the left hand brach you move sort of covers a big gap about 3 quarters of the way up the trunk, again, hopefully i should get some buds/branches in there this year and be able to re-arrange it next year.
(this is the same for the branch on the right had i known about the bad branch placement i might not have bought the tree) n/m i think it has potential, and your suggestions are earmarked for the future.

Thanks again, i might have a look at the spaghetti branching idea over the weekend and figure out if its possible.

Thanks
Rowan

__________________
In literary and art criticism there are two criteria, the political and the artistic....

Words and actions should help to unite, and not divide, the people of our various nationalities

I often talk to myself because i am the only one who truly understands me.

Emperor Fish

Rowan,

Yes, it is certainly possible with long shoots like these.

Regards,

Fish.

Attached Images

Spag Wire.jpg (37.0 KB, 37 views)

__________________
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill.

HEALTH WARNING: Engage brain fully, before typing into keyboard.


"We are the average gamers and we'll kill you badly. There'll be no finesse. no fancy tricks, no inventive attacks, just 2 whole smg clips and a rain of 'nades."

rowan57

I took some of your advice Fish and moved a couple of branches around to get some foliage in front of the trunk, and at the weekend i will try and do the detail wiring and the spaghetti wiring, i think the tree (and me!) has been through enough for today, and im getting tired + tiredness = mistakes.


Current Photo (does look better, but looks better in person than the photograph)

Once again, thanks for your help and ideas, sometimes i cant see the wood for the trees

Attached Images

jpeg0009.JPG (65.5 KB, 44 views)

__________________
In literary and art criticism there are two criteria, the political and the artistic....

Words and actions should help to unite, and not divide, the people of our various nationalities

I often talk to myself because i am the only one who truly understands me.

heymikey(deceased)

heyRowan; Your cryptomeria is progressing nicely and Fish's constructive advice is spot on. From my limited experience with this species I would add that they are very apically dominant and that is why the profuse top growth exists and why the upper trunk is large. To improve taper (such as in your avatar) one needs to keep the upper branch growth continuously pruned back and allow the lower branches to extend (fattening up the lower trunk). Also, as you have noticed they back bud profusely and the odds of a branch popping out where needed is good it just takes a little time. Regards, heyMikey!!