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29-Sep-2003
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#1 |
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bonsaiTALK Journeyman
Join Date: Sep-2003
Posts: 14
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Crenata Holly Prune And Wire Followup
Hi all,
I want to thank you all again for your help on my ilex crenata holly. I took all the info, and virtuals into account, and I went ahead with a prune and wire. All I did was cut away the branches I finally decided I wouldn't use, and then wired the remaining ones. I also repotted the tree on a new angle. Below I've attached three photos of what I call the front, back and side. Any thoughts on how I should develop this further? Also, this tree has tons of roots, roots everywhere, what should I do with these roots in the future? Its not really my intention to have those 'exposed' roots but they do sorta look cool right now don't they? heh At this point, I'm sorta just waiting around and waiting for rebudding and hoping for good opportunities to develop some foliage pads and good ramification on the three major branches. Thanks, F.B. Tran The front of the holly, roughly 5 inches from soil to top extension of top branch. Last edited by derfnart : 29-Sep-2003 at 05:37 PM. |
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29-Sep-2003
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#2 |
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bonsaiTALK Journeyman
Join Date: Sep-2003
Posts: 14
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the "back" I think this back few is appealing too, do you think I should make this my new front?
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29-Sep-2003
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#3 |
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bonsaiTALK Journeyman
Join Date: Sep-2003
Posts: 14
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the side, notice that the tree naturally sorta tilts to one side, I tried to fix this by reposition the tree in the pot, but you can only do so much. I've tried to wire the branches and fix this tilt a bit...
currently the "front" on the right side. which means if you were looking from the right you'd be looking in from the "front". I've read somewhere that traditionally, bonsai specimens should have an apex that sorta tilts toward the viewer, in that case, I might have to reverse my "front" and switch that to the left side of this picture? what do you think? |
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29-Sep-2003
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#4 |
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bonsaiTALK Master
 
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HI derfnart,
Good to hear that you are making progress, however, I am a little cocerned with some of the things that you have done, they could be potentially life threatening to the tree or cause areas of die back! On the picture below I have circuled a branch which could die, the wiring is far to close around the branch and will reduce and could stop the flow of sap and cause this area to die. Wiring should be wider than this and at an angle of 45 degrees for optimum bending whilst not restricting sap flow (a book is a good source to learn from for this or i'm sure some one else can point you to a web link). best to remove this wire by cutting it away and rewiring. Also where abouts are you from? How much root did you remove when you repotted, as winter is coming this could be a problem. However don't get to dicouraged, everthing is fixable, you can rewire and protect if you disturbed the roots to greatly. Hope i've sort of helped . Jonny. |
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30-Sep-2003
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#5 |
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bonsaiTALK Journeyman
Join Date: Sep-2003
Posts: 14
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Johnny,
Took a note of your comments, very constructive, thanks man. After I finished work, took about 10 mins and rewired that branch back again. Attached another picture of what it looks like this time. I spread out the wires, and loosened each loop. I live in Pennsylvania, but actually, I did a lot of research into this particular species, Ilex crenata, and apparently a lot of authors note that this can be a particular successful indoor bonsai species. So I decided to conduct a little experiment at my own risk, I have a yaupon holly (similiar species) growing outside, and I have a crenata holly growing indoors under supplemental light, misted daily etc. So I don't expect that winter will have as much of an inpact on this tree as one might assume. Also, I didn't cut much back from the roots. I sorta just repotted the tree on an angle, and snipped a couple of minor roots. I didn't do any pruning. Thanks so far, F.B. Tran below is the rewired branch, inset in picture is what it looked like before. |
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30-Sep-2003
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#6 |
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Old Mister Crow
 
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The rewiring is improved, but still nowhere near 45 degrees.
Here's 45 degrees as typically pictured in wiring diagrams:
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In love with trees |
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30-Sep-2003
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#7 |
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Old Mister Crow
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Unfortunately, the diagram above - though extremely common on-line and in print - is misleading. While that picture shows the wire running at a 45 degree angle across the front of the tree, it isn't quite correct in that gaps between segments running across the front as far apart as each segment is long. This would be accurate if one spent one's time wiring thin board slats with circumference of roughly twice the diameter, but it puts the coils too close together, given that we are usually wiring roughly cylindrical branches with circumference roughly Pi times the diameter. In this latter case, proper 45 degree wiring looks about like this.
With my pedantic regards, Carl
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In love with trees Last edited by Carl Bergstrom : 30-Sep-2003 at 02:38 AM. |
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30-Sep-2003
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#8 |
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Tips:5¢ Advice:Free
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I'm afraid this tree is kind of the poster child for bad wiring this week. Bonsai Today had a great early primer on wiring, I think it is one of the first ten issues. They have revisited it in #63, which should be available as a back issue.
http://www.stonelantern.com/bonsaitodaybackissues.html Just tell me: Is that wire zinc coated STEEL? It would explain a lot if so, it would be understandable that you're struggling against it. Regards, Matt
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30-Sep-2003
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#9 |
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bonsaiTALK Master Chief
 
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I fount this link rather helpful and still refer back to it to keep it fresh
http://www.treebay.com/index.html?t...1&A=78&B=Wiring Adam |
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30-Sep-2003
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#10 |
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bonsaiTALK Journeyman
Join Date: Sep-2003
Posts: 14
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First of all I want to really thank everyone for the help so far, this is my first wiring job, so I'm definitely learning as I go.
Individually, thank you oldmistercrow for displaying those graphics, and TreeBay thanks for providing that link, as well as Adam that website is very cool. Also, treebay, the wire is alluminum wire, just regular stuff that I got from home depot, I figure its non-corrosive, and fairly cheap. It does the job quite well. Secondly, I'm not quite sure I understand the purpose of wiring. It seems like I got such a repulsive response from my posting that it sort of took me back. I posted a new message on this board to share my latest development, and indeed, I was not sure if I had done a good job on pruning, and selecting trunk angle etc... but it turns out that the wiring was the hottest topic. Is wiring a simply a matter of holding branches in position, or asthetics? If it is an issue of the former, than I'd argue that my wiring job is more than adequate, and I've done my best to insure that no harm was done to the tree as pointed out earlier by Johnny D. Therefor, I'd say that if the functionality of the wiring is of primary concern then my wiring job is rather adequate and not the "poster child for bad wiring". I've in fact been told once before, that in truth, there is no right way to wire a tree, and it can sometimes come down to preference. So with that said, I'm sure somebody will come onto here, and post a reply on why my wiring sucks, and how this book, and that author says you should do it this way. And no doubt, I understand that the classics should always be understood before they are questioned, but to call this wiring job hideous is a rather crass statement to make while it appears to me that I have done a rather functionally satisfying job. Anyway, I am not unappreciative of the moments everyone has taken out of their days thus far to help me, I do actually appreciate it greatly, but I think that your intonation on certain topics need better perspective. But with that said, I want to reiterate my thanks, so far... Anyway, I was wondering if anyone can add anything else about the tree? besides the wiring, which by the way, is something I will work to improve on in the coming months. -F.B. Tran |
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