Chinese Elm - newbie

paranoize

this is a chinese elm i bought in holland and brought it to greece. Provided the climate here is a bit dry i would like some advice on watering and pruning. Should i prune it now? Later? I have it outdoors (shade) at the moment watering it frequently. It's far from beeing a proper bonsai yet. Does it have any chances ever beeing one?
Should i buy some fertilizer or smth?

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Aaron_K

Hi Para,

In a few years this tree will be quite nice. Its got potential. All it takes is time, a little know-how and dedication. For now just let it grow in its current pot till next spring. The soil doesn't look particularly brilliant, more like plain old garden compost that's not been sifted to remove the fine dusty material. In years to come this could/would cause problems with the roots, as it remains very wet for long periods and doesn't allow for air to get them. Eventually this will cause the roots to die and rot.

If left outside, a Chinese elm will lose its leaves come winter. I know you are in Greece so it may not lose them if temps don't drop below 6-7C. Repot in the spring just before new leaves appear. Wash off all the old soil and repot into a sifted compost/Grit mix. I'd suggest using a ratio of about 70-80% organics to 20-30% inorganics. This will help hold the moisture for longer, which will be important in your zone.

I'd also put it in a much larger pot or container to help accelerate the growth of new branches. Leave them to grow untouched till a good sized diameter is achieved, to bring them into proportion with the trunk. I have a Chinese elm that I did exactly the same too. In February it had all but a few stubs of branches, new growth was left till it reached around 50-60cm. Now it has the starting of good structure, some about 6mm-8mm thick. This has since been cut to begin the start of the ramification of fine twiggy growth.

Water when the soil becomes less than damp. As it will dry up fairly quick in your location this may be daily - even twice daily, but let the soil/tree dictate your watering, don't fall into the trap of watering daily when its not needed (quickest way to kill a tree). In winter it will need significantly less than in the height of summer etc, etc.

Feed every 1-2 weeks with a nitrogen fertilizer. If its a "special" bonsai product, follow the manufacturers guidelines. If its a plain old garden feed, use at 50% strength at most, then follow manufactures feeding recommendations. Feeding should start in the spring with new growth, and cease in the winter with leaf drop. Never overfeed the tree or fertilize it after root pruning for at least 6 weeks.

Picking up a few books will greatly help, and reading as much as you can about the species. They are forgiving and can take some punishment so its a good choice to being with.

Hope that helps.

All the best,

Aaron

paranoize

Thanks a lot man, it was a really good answer. I am just wondering, will it get any new buds till spring? It's still warm here...

soltan

you've got a good tree to start with there, has it had any previous trianing. it looks like it had a prune not that long ago this may bud at the moment but can't be sure.

brett

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Aaron_K

Hi again Para,

Yes it should continue to get buds appearing and breaking. Mine is still pushing out new growth and will do so until the weather starts to get cold and the daylight hours shorter, when the leaves will drop. For the UK that's around the mid October to November, weather dictating.

If the winter temps in Greece don't drop below 6-7C then it will not have a dormancy period. I should imagine that it would continue to push out new growth, although this will be a great deal slower and sparser than in the summer months for obvious reasons.

If you wanted to, you could bring the tree inside and place it on a bright window sill for the winter. Chinese elms can be kept indoors 365 days a year, but its not something I would recommend doing. Trees are best grown where they are meant to grow. Out in the sunshine, with fresh air and the rain when it decides to fall. If the temperature was to fall below zero, then I would recommend bringing the Chinese elm inside, as they are OK down to about -4c but not much more than that.

Some people in warmer climates such as yours induce dormancy for deciduous trees artificially, by putting the trees in cold storage for around 8 weeks. If you are looking in the future to increase your bonsai collection and expanding the retinue of tree types, then it might be worth reading up on how others perform this.

Soltan, this tree quite probably was imported from China or one of the surrounding East Asia nations where these are grown on mass in fields for the bonsai market. They are commonly referred to in the west as "Mallsai" and some people avoid them like the plaque, preferring to go to bonsai nurseries to purchase more developed (and expensive) stock.

However provide you get a healthy plant, there is nothing wrong at all with expanding on the initial styling that the tree has received. Some trees on this website in the owners gallery have been grown from "Mallsai" stock and are quite beautiful to say the least. All it takes is time and effort.

All the best,

Aaron

paranoize

Thanks a lot for all the advice. There are already some new buds growing I'm watering it with care making a mist, and I bought a NPK fertilizer (20-20-20) which i will use with the double water than suggested - once per month. I wonder why repotting is suggested at spring, since at winter and even and dormancy periods (not 100% sure about the last) the roots are growing.
I was wondering what mallsai tree was -even after reading relevant articles- until u said mine is one of them... It just means that this is a tree that is far from beeing a bonsai? Smth like a pre-pre-pre bonsai?

Aaron_K

Hi Para,

Repotting is generally performed in the spring (on the vast majority of tree species) as it is less stressful and is shortly before all the new growth starts. As repotting involves pruning the roots, sometimes substantially, trying this in summer would be too stressful on the tree and it would most likely die.

Mallsai is just a term many people use to describe mass produced bonsai trees that are often found in chain stores in the US and shopping malls (hence the name). For those seriously into bonsai or those comparing them to trees that are in refinement, mallsai are viewed as more potential bonsai material. I guess another term often used is "Potensai" or "Potential bonsai". (Yup we make up loads of words round here )

All trees that are raw material are potensai, although some lend themselves better to the art than others.

What you have falls into that catergory and is nothing to worry or be disappointed/ashamed about at all! I have them, as do many people. They are a very good starting point for people to learn about caring and styling of trees. In a few years, with some good growth and styling, this tree will be totally transformed. When I get the chance, I will take a picture of what mine looks like after just 8 months of growth in a training pot.

As you read more and view some truly great trees, your perception of "what a bonsai tree is" will most definately change. When I first started, I thought that just about any tree in a pot was a bonsai (although by literal translation this is true). Now I catergorise them into classes of raw material, potensai, trees in training and those in refinement, etc, etc.

Hope that helps.

All the best,

Aaron

Thomas_J.

Your right about that, but if you give it the time and care that it needs, you could have something that really looks good someday.

I've posted this picture many times for people just as you who started out with a tree that looks identical to this one. As the years go by, it will adapt very easy to your styling. This one looked just like the one you posted when I purchased it ten years ago.

Attached Images

spndl elm 5-06(83).jpg (50.4 KB, 99 views)

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paranoize

hi
the temparature here is around 35C deegrees and I start to worry about my elm. A couple of leaves turned yellowi graduallly and eventually when I touched them a bit they fell. It happened because of the heat? On the other hand I worry maybe I overwater it, I water it twice a day these hot days, so that tha soil remains damp. Also under the pot I have a tray which has some water in it for humidity. Should I put it indoors maybe?

I also wonder why we keep some branches that in later years I'm not gonna keep them for sure as I develop ramification at the edges of the already existing branches. I know it takes patience but what's the purpose of keeping branches that we know we are going to prune later?
here is a pic of what is probably going to be pruned in future.

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prune2.jpg (63.7 KB, 51 views)