Black pine questions.

Roosy

Hi all,
Roosy here. This is my first post since I joined, so let me tell you a bit about myself. I live in Melbourne, Australia ( Forest Hill ) and up until recentlly, dreaded pretty much any form of gardening ( must have been traumatised from all those years pulling out weeds for the parents for like, 2 bucks a day!) But I've always appreciated the art of Bonsai. So when I was christmas shopping last year, and found a little bonsai stall, I couldn't resist. Since then I've gone a bit nutty, visiting nurseries every weekend and spending lots of cash & I'm truly hooked!

Anyway, I was wondering if someone could help me with this black pine (see attatched pics)
I know they're not the ideal plant for a beginner, but I want to know how to train them NOW so that when I'm old and grey I'll have some decent mature pines of my own that I have created.
So there's a couple of things I need to clear up.
1st: What's the difference between the candles and the needles?
2nd: I know from everything I've read that the needles need to be pinched back so that they grow back shorter and thicker, but how do you actually pinch them?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Attached Images

	blackpine2.1.JPG (63.7 KB, 110 views)
	blackpine2.2.JPG (63.3 KB, 62 views)
	blackpine2.3.JPG (65.6 KB, 70 views)

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TreeBay

There's a nice candle in the wiki for you. The needles are the individual, long, pointed leaves in bundles of 2, 3 or 5.

Regards,

Matt

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cbobgo

Needle reduction is the last phase in development of a pine. Your tree is too early in the process to do that. You would only weaken the tree. You want to encourage growth, to thicken up that trunk.

- bob

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bisco_bonsai

Funny you should ask, I was just reading a book on black pines last night ("Japanese Black Pine" by Steve Pilacik) and here's what he says to do with black pine nursery stock=> First Year: Repot the tree in a growing box with bonsai soil (be sure all the old "dirt" is removed) and remove the upper and lower needles on old wood branches, leaving only a few sets on each side. New buds will develop at these points. Give the tree good winter protection. Second Year: Allow the new growth to completely elongate (Usually at beginning of summer) and harden, then cut it off completely (Usually mid summer). Four to six weeks after pruning, new buds will have developed, and their needles will be about 1/2 to 1/3 the normal size. In mid-fall, when growing is coming to a halt, remove all of last year's needles. Rub off the buds growing on the top or bottom of the branches, and keep terminal buds. Year Three: Repot the tree (either back into a growing container if it needs to thicken up more or in a bonsai pot) and let the candles grow out pinching back for shape. Cut the needles to about 1/2 their lenght to bring them into proportion; this is the only time the needles should be cut. With proper candle pruning, the candles should reduce in size. Repeat basic bonsai care and pruning from here on out.

I would like to add though, that if you decide not to use all you braches, then wire the tips up and let them grow out wild to thicken the trunk. This will probably take a bit of energy away from the branches you are training, but I think it will speed up the process in the long run by giving you a nice thick trunk to work with. Just make sure these braches don't shade you branches in training, because pines need full sunlight to develop properly. Also, I would consider when repotting this tree that you innoculate the soil with ectomychorrizae. There are plenty of articles on the internet on mychorrizae and their benefits, just google it.
I would really recommend that you buy Mr. Pilacik's book; it's short (only 46 pages) and to the point with great illustrations, and only covers Japanese black pine. It's also very reasonably priced. I've seen some of his trees and this technique has worked very well. I hope some of this helps, good luck.
All the best,
JDL

Roosy

Thanks for the info JDL, I'll check that book out.

Roosy

Thanks for the reply Bob. Ok, so where do I go from here? One of my problems is that I don't really know how old this tree is, and I don't know how long it's been wired for. Also, it looks like the roots have pretty much filled the pot, so maybe I should repot sometime soon. And if I want to encourage growth, should I go for a bigger pot, or prune the roots and put it back in the nursery pot it's in now?
Cheers, Roosy.

mkonig

HI Roosy

Without being disrespectful, I would be cautious with the advice given by bisco-bonsai. He is quoting from a book, not from personal experience.
You may want to find out where (in which climate zone) the Author lived and certainly consult with "local" enthusiats or nurseries that understand the conditions you need to provide for the tree in your climate. I would furthermore suggest that it is not a good idea to bare root (remove all the soil) from any pine unless you have some problem like root rot, infestation of root aphids or any other such problem that can not be remedied in any other way.

Bisco-bonsai- from the questions Roosy asked you should have seen that no previous experience is present and that quoting techniques from a book that talks of pinching back and basic bonsai care without instruction is not very helpful to a person who is not able to distinguish needles from candles.



Regards
Mike

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DavidN

G'day Roosy
I live in Melbourne too and I would suggest that you to join one of the local bonsai clubs. Our club is located in Yarraville which is probably a bit far for you to drive too but there is another club located in Mt Waverley which might be closer for you to go too. That would be the best way to get advice on your tree.

Roosy

Yeah, I've been to the Yarraville club website David, it looks really good. And if I'm only going out there once a month for meetings, it's not so bad. Is there much difference between the clubs anyway?
Thanks for all the replies guys.
Roosy.