1st post, 1st Bonsai... (Embedded Pics)

october

I would have to agree with this.....5-7 years is a great window for bonsai. Long enough to create a nice tree..but not so far in the future that it seems almost unattainable.

Also, I would like to add that there is nothing wrong with holding onto and nurturing this tree. I would just look to purchasing or finding several others. If you have other trees to occupy your time, bonsai will seem more rewarding and more fun.

Also, the secret, well not really a secret, of you seeing trees with biographies such as...IN TRAINING FOR 20 YEARS or STARTED FROM SEED 40 YEARS AGO is that the artists have like 80 to 400 trees.........When you have a collection in the hundreds, it is easy to put one aside, keep it healthy and nurture it until it is ready for styling.

Another important fact that I would like to add is that this tree, will not teach you much in the next 4-5 years...You will learn, maybe, how it buds and what its water needs are, but as far as actual bonsai learning, it will be devoid of content. You should start with pre trained or a tree that is almost finished, study the tree, study what the artist did to create it , concentrate on keeping it alive....With a start like this, your eye will be getting the future experience it needs to create your own future masterpiece.

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Ang3lFir3

Don't get on my case, please... I am teaching and offering a lesson here... Everything takes time... and it's a personal decision about how much time and effort you want to put into something.

I personally believe every intermediate to expert Bonsai-ist should have some of this kind of material .... stuff that may sit in fields even after we are long dead... because it wasn't ready yet. (which seems silly I know) the problem here is that most people new to bonsai expect some sort of result soon... and they should get it... they should be encouranged to purchase better material to start with so that by the time that stick in a pot becomes a tree.... they will be skilled enough to turn it into the potential masterpiece it might be.

When MarcS said that it would never be bonsai he was making a point... that living in the that little pot it will never become bonsai.... not in 50yrs not in 150yrs .... material like this needs to be planted out to the ground and left alone. (just like the trees in your linked thread which was layered and planted in the ground for 12 yrs) (also note that the author of that thread learned an important lesson... BUY BETTER MATERIAL)

So... yes it could one day be a beautiful bonsai.... but that day is SOOO far in the future that its not time to even consider it.... plant the tree out.. make sure it lives... and rethink it again in a decade..... until then.... buy a worthy piece of material.... either you love bonsai or you don't.... spend the $100 it takes to find out... if that seems like too much.... then you don't love bonsai as much as you think you do and you probably never will.

(you in this post does not designate any particular person... I am speaking of the collective "you")

SlapSlapSlappy

I agree with Angelfire. A lot of people that I talk to seem to think that you either have to start with some fresh stock or grow it from seed. It's not just about growing everything yourself, because it will probably look amazing 60 years from when it was first started. It's not just about starting it out, it's about continuing the styles and forms that the original artist dreamed of for the tree.

Hawthorn

Angelfire, please understand that I wasn't getting on your case, possibly I could have reworded that post. However, I agree that it is up to each of us to decide our own path. Yours is realization of vision within 5-7 years, and I said that was fine. The rest of my post was more general in nature, particularly the statment you quoted.

I view bonsai as art, this is my perception of what it should be.
My view of art is not typical of the average bonsai enthusiast.. apparently.

Please understand that I view all opinions and suggestions as valid and with merit. I do believe though that sometimes more care can be given in how they are presented to those of us who are just taking their first steps into this world.

MarcS

Because it was air layered.
The tree we're talking about grew in the shadow of another plant, this means almost no sleeping buds at the bottom of the trunk. No bonsaist I know of started with material like this.

__________________
Thinking is easy, acting is difficult, and to put one's thoughts into
action is the most difficult thing in the world.
Goethe

Mcspeed

Damn another thread that says we need to make everyone feel good, no pc here, if it's a stick in the pot it aint bonsai. Not as in bonsai the verb, bonsai as in ancient wind blown, weather beaten, lightning struck, tree in a pot, made to look that way by bonsai the verb. Isn't bonsai the noun what we are looking for here.

Problem being too many people cut thier teeth on mallsai, feel good forums, and beginners article and books that don't take it further down the road. Hence sticks in a pot, and OH MY God I can't believe you said that attitudes.

Here is a statement that most experianced practitioners understand, and newbs try to find a way around or just don't believe. Bonsai are grown far taller than wanted for the final design, then drastically cut down, let grow again, then cut back again, this process can cycle back and forth as often as needed to get the trunk grown out to match with the final designs height. This process is years, often many many years, then it goes in a pot, at least a much smaller pot.

You don't have to make em feel good, but telling someone that a stick in a pot is a good start to a design is blowin smoke up someones patutty. Theres way too many 10 year beginners that wish the 12 years that they invested in at tree was time better spent. Telling them the truth whether thay can handle the truth or not, is saving them from themselves, and namby pamby feelgooders, the real world is cold and hard, be ready for it.

__________________
If at first you don't succeed -- skydiving is not for you.


Always remember that you're unique -- just like everyone else

Enjoy this day.
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MarcS

Dany Use (the guy from the Ginkgo Award), and a great bonsai master, says it takes at least 5 years for a good pre-bonsai to develop into a real bonsai...
Working on seedlings and stuff like this is a waste of time.
Go for a thick trunk with taper. You can find them for $50.

__________________
Thinking is easy, acting is difficult, and to put one's thoughts into
action is the most difficult thing in the world.
Goethe

Hawthorn

And if you had only taken the extra care to explain that you didn't think much could be done with it and why, instead of making such a negative statment...

This is why I say, if you do not wish to teach, you should not offer lessons when beginners ask for help. Simply because, you will come off as rude and entirely unhelpful.

MarcS

AJ must be very confused by now.
I posted the same question on a forum in May 2007 when I started with bonsai, and was very confused by the answers I got.

__________________
Thinking is easy, acting is difficult, and to put one's thoughts into
action is the most difficult thing in the world.
Goethe