1st post, 1st Bonsai... (Embedded Pics)

AaronJ

Hi everyone,

What a great forum!

I'll get right too it....

A few months back I found this growing in my garden under a Loquat tree. Not sure what it is but given there are several plum and cherry type 'weed' species naturalised here, it's likely to be something along those lines.

I basically just yanked it out of the ground planning to throw it on the compost and only decided to keep it last minute as a heap of roots came too.

So I chopped the top 2/3 off (it was very leggy having been in full shade), trimmed the roots and stuck it in an old bonsai pot, I had lying around, with basic potting mix.

Much to my surprise (have done nothing more than water it) it has thrived and reshooted.

The pot is about 20x30x5cm and the tree now stands near 70cm. As you can see most growth is near the top and the main trunk ends rather abruptly where I cut the top 2/3 off.

Winter is nearing so I imagine it'll drop its leaves soon.

Now I love bonsais, but have never gotten into them. I’m a fanatic gardener and have a large glasshoused Nepenthes collection. Now that I have it, I thought what a perfect excuse to start another hobby ;-)

My reason for posting is that I'd like to ask for suggestions as to how best to prune and shape it based on how it looks now:





Any and all suggestions are much appreciated.

AJ

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Asus101

Over winter, start researching. www.bonsai4me.com is a great resource, as is the Bonsaitalk wiki section.

With out wanting to sound like an [expletive deleted], reading up on as much as you can first before asking long strings of questions. It helps you understand the answers given. There are lots of online and offline reading available to beginners. From styling, to watering.

Having basic horticulture know how like you do will be a big help.

Your tree looks similar to a plum.


Welcome to the bonsai bug!

__________________
"All your pinus is belong to us!"

Shrunken heads for all occasions. Collect them, swap them, give them to your witch doctor friend.

AaronJ

Asus,

As you were strait up, I'll also be... You may not have wanted to sound like and AH but you did!

I may be new to bonsai but I’m not new to forums and forum etiquette. A mistake I feel is worse than a newbie asking an annoying un-researched question, is that of a regular and experienced member incorrectly assuming a newbie has not done their research.

I have been and am doing the research I would for any new interest and although a long explanation, I asked ONE question…not “a long string of questions”. I gave as much detail as I knew to give to aid anyone willing to help out. Certainly the way I like to see newbies posting in the forums I’m involved in.

Surely there was no harm in asking my one question given it is more to do with the artistic side of the hobby? There must be many experienced people here who would have a better idea of what shape/pruning options I could consider or who could offer pointers to help guide me? I have read up on many of the basic shapes/forms, but am still at a loss as to how to begin to tackle this tree (if it is in fact worth it). Hence my post/question.

Anyway enough said...

The link you provided is much appreciated as I’d not found that site yet. Looks like agreat site so I’ll be sure to go over it.

Would still love to get some shaping ideas….

AJ

PatArizona

G'day Aaron...

Your subject is much too immature to submit to training. Good advice from Asus.

My suggestion...for now, let it grow. No trimming, no root pruning. Then in your coming spring...September?...when the buds start swelling, before they open...either (1) return it to the ground and let it grow for three years or so, to devellop a decent trunk; or, (2) transplant it into a much, much larger trainijng pot, and let it grow for three years or so.

Now, in the mean time, search out and hook up with someone local with bonsai experience in your geographical area. And, join a local club. Have the "local" and the club look at your "bonsai". This is where you will get the best advice for your geographical area.

To help you get started, maybe this can help.


TO THE BEGINNERS…

You have asked many questions, and will ask many more...and have received many answers, and will receive many more. Read the responses. There is sooo much to learn, and some structure to the learning would really be better than the "shotgun" approach.

What I have to say here is in no way intended to keep you from asking questions on bonsaiTALK. The intention is to guide you to an approach that is far superior to the "shotgun".

And...always remember that the only dumb question is the one that you don't ask.

Maybe the following will help...

One thing that you should learn at the earliest possible time, is patience. The more you learn about bonsai, the more you will realize the importance of being patient. You cannot be taught patience by someone else...but you must learn to be patient.

There are five things (plus NEXT, below) that a beginner should do, right at the start:

• Read...read...read...then read some more.
• Join a local club.
• Take a beginners' class.
• Learn the importance of being patient.
• Look at additional learning resources.

Read... Read... Read...Go to your local library and read every book on bonsai that you can put your hands on. In the US, the book most often recommended for beginners is BONSAI, published by Sunset...an excellent first book for beginners. Be sure to get the 2003 edition. Among my favorite authors are: David DeGroot, Herb Gustafson, Deborah Koreshoff, Colin Lewis, and John Naka...and, there are many more good books. The more you read, the better prepared you will be to ask questions here, or at your local club...in Step 2.

Join a Local Club…Here is where you can get the best advice available, since the local club members are the ones who are raising bonsai in YOUR geographical area. The local club can help you avoid the pitfalls that you may encounter when you get advice from, maybe, half way around the world. Many things in bonsai are pretty much universal, but you need to know what it takes to keep a bonsai happy and healthy in your location...be it New York, Tucson, San Francisco, Sidney, London, or Toronto. There are many more benefits to being a member of a local club. You can find local clubs worldwide at www.bonsai-bci.com/. Most clubs meet once a month…plus additional activities.

Take a Beginners Class…This is where you formally begin learning the basics, like selecting a nursery plant, which plant to start with, identifying the front, branch trimming, wiring, and on and on. You will begin to learn what works best for your area, what tools you need, and how to use them, etc. A good beginners class will get you off to a good start.

Learn the Importance of Being Patient…One thing that you should learn at the earliest possible time is patience. The more you learn about bonsai, the more you will realize the importance of being patient. You cannot be taught patience by someone else...but you must learn to be patient.

Additional Learning Resources…Look at the American Bonsai Society web site at www.absbonsai.org. Check out the ABS Correspondence Course and the ABS Learning Seminars 2007 and 2008, look at the set of beginner's courses.

Next…The bonsaiTALK Forum has a lot to offer. Check it out thoroughly so that you can use it to your best advantage.

Having said all this, welcome the wonderful obsession, I mean world, of bonsai!

Rermember, bonsai is a trip...welcome aboard, and enjoy the journey.


Pat

__________________
BONSAI isn't about surviving in a storm, rather, how to dance in the rain.
THE ONLY WAY: Always remember, and don't ever forget, that whatever you read here is not cast in concrete... the intent of any advice is to help. In no way should you feel that I’m saying that my way is the only way…heaven forbid! I've seen far too much of the "my way or the highway" attitude in bonsai as well as in other areas of life.

Hawthorn

And now, without the lecture...


Welcome AaronJ, this really is a great place to get bonsai knowledge, honestly, I mean it.

Anyhow, I do agree with Pat, in that this tree isn't ready for styling just yet. The first thing you should do is follow Pat's advice above and winter it, then get it into a more suitable growing situation(ground, or large grow pot). Let that trunk fatten up really Good!

You'll find that a lot of people believe that there's only the "right" way to do things in the bonsai world and if you appear to stray away from this you'll get a tongue(keyboard) lashing for it. Don't take it personally, it's just they way most Bonsai people are. This "art form" is so well studied that to some people it's more of a science(rules, steps and order) than an art. Take their advice and learn from it, but you must also find your own path.

Good luck with that tree of yours!
But remember, patience is the key to all things bonsai.

MarcS

This will never become a bonsai even if you let it grow 5 years (sorry, someone has to say it).
For a bonsai you need:
- a thick trunk (the thickness dictates the depth of the pot, fe a 2 inch trunkbase requires a 2 inch deep pot, and the future height of the tree, 6 times the width of the trunk base
- taper in the trunk.

Look for material like this and you will have a nice tree in two years.

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Thinking is easy, acting is difficult, and to put one's thoughts into
action is the most difficult thing in the world.
Goethe

Hawthorn

How do you have the authority or right to say something like that?!!

Dictating that a tree could/would never be able to be a bonsai based solely on it's current appearance is asinine at best.

Saying that it could be a bonsai within a determined ammount of time would also be incorrect too. However, nobody said that this tree could be a bonsai within a couple of years, the only thing that was stated was that to start off, the tree will need a few years of growth before the trunk will be of a reasonable size to begin training as a pre-bonsai. Many many many techniques could be used to turn this tree into a bonsai, given enough time.

This tree is a living thing, just because it currently looks a bit like a twig with leaves doesn't mean that it won't one day become a perfect 10.

Bonsai is about giving things time to develop.

Hawthorn

As an example of my optimism for this tree, look at the elm in this post.

http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/f57/12-...ting-26643.html

Started out as not much more than a twig, years later, it's become 2 very decent bonsai.. imho..

Ang3lFir3

While I will agree that someday any tree COULD become bonsai..... I would like to quote my dear teacher and friend Daniel Robinson "It's a 200 year plan"... which is not to say that it would actually take 200 years... The point is that often times the amount of time required for a specific piece of material to become worthy of bonsai is so far ahead of us that it's not worth considering now... if ever..... material that will never be much of anything for a vast majority of your lifetime may or may not be worthwhile to you.... I perfer material I can realize a vision in within 5-7 yrs or less

just another perspective