The Zen Of Thread Hijacking.

pdbbonsai

Ok. I did it to suck ya in. Naming the thread as I have was a joke. However the point of it isnt.

Rather than dirty up a perfectly good thread about an exhibition being held in California (Thanks Al for some great coverage!!), I thought I would show some COURTESY to write my response to some of what was being said in that thread.

Attila and Smith,

QUOTE] I belong to the 'old' Japanese school, and I do not believe the naturalistic style is the next step in the evolution of bonsai. If you like it, great; enjoy it. [/QUOTE]


Is there a "new" Japanese School?

Where do you see the evolution of bonsai?

What is the next step? Direction? Would you like bonsai to just stagnate in the cureent form?

I am not defending Walter Pall. He needs no defending. He has a collection that anyone here would love to own. Like you, I respect him and I admire his collection immensely. You seem to think, from what I can tell, that we are sheep following Mr Pall as if he is some sort of Bonsai God.

How do you feel about Nick Lenz? Avante garde bonsai? Is this a misstep in the evolution of bonsai as well?

I am just curious. ALot of have followed your thoughts about Japanese tradition. With respect, I understand where you are coming from. BUt I would really like to hear what your thoughts are.

Why is is soooooo wrong to inject individuality into bonsai?


Just trying to figure out what all the fuss is about.

Paul

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BrianBay9

I like the Japanese classical style, and Walter's naturalism, depending on the tree. Granted, I can't do either with any skill yet, but I like 'em both.

Brian

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bonsaial1

May I innterupt?

Having the privledge to spend three days with Walter Pall, I feel that I can speak of some things first hand.

Spending time with Walter is the only way that you will ever understand the man. You will never get it through the written medium. You will not get it through pictures in books. You will not get it by listening to my ramblings second hand.

What I will tell you is this man is proud, passionate and humble. He could care less that you like any of his trees. If you find them beautiful, so much the better. Walter has to be taken in, stand or sit with him, watch his arms flail about while he tells the story. Listen to his voice change, going to a whisper sometimes and then scarring the crap out of you with thunderous groans of how the tree responded to his techniques. He speaks so fast that he almost always out of breath. He sucks you in, and you crave more. This man is not the most reveared artist in the world, but when you listen to him speak, you understand why he is one of the most sought after headliners in the world. This man will captivate you.

Smith does not get it yet. Someday he may. If he did he would really take a look at the works of Walter Pall. If he could understand the language that the tree speaks, he would hear the the tree has many Japanese things to say.

If one could listen to Walter during his styling seminar, One could hear Walter and how the Japanese styles have affected his work. All the great trees Walter has styled can see many Japanese influences in them. Walter does not seek licked (as he calls them) trees. They bore him! Sometimes they bore me too!

I think there is plenty of room for all styles of bonsai. I think the world can handle a rogue artist. This is what Walter considers himself. He wishes to not make a Wild boar into a house swine. Sometimes the tree just has to look like a tree and not a painted Geisha. Yea you may the Japanese way is the only way, but let me tell you after a few days with Walter, you have a whole new perspective on how you seek out material for bonsai.

Take a hard look, a serious look. Look inside yourself, do you want to be a rogue boar or a house swine?

Attached Images

leaning.jpg (53.0 KB, 363 views)

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I been kidding the last seven years.
no.... really!

grampz

I am glad you chose to start this thread, and possibly avoid this discussion in a thread about a wonderful exibition...I too am curious to hear the answer to many of the questions raised...I have a great amount of respect for the 'Japanese' styles, artistry, and exibition techniques...However I do hope this is not the end of the evolution of bonsai...

I also greatly admire the stylings of many other artists, Walter Pall, Nick Lenz, Horst Heinzlreiter, Wolfgang Putz, Jerry Meislik, Rob Kempinski, John Quinn, Al Keppler, Carl Rosner, Ron Martin, Andy Rutledge, Thomas John, and on and on...None of these have Japanese names, although the Japanese influence I think is there in each of their stylings...Some much more than others...Some have been able to more easily stray from the 'standard' styling practices in the material if it is worthy of a different styling technique...

I truly hope I never become so narrow minded, as to what constitutes the perfect bonsai, that I cannot appreciate all bonsai for what the artist has created, whether or not it follows my or anyones standards...I also hope I will always be able to see bonsai that does not remind me of a well trimed, cone shaped bush, with a nice trunk...

Regards
Behr

pdbbonsai

Well said Al,

Thats what I mean....Why all the fuss about Walter? Why cant he or any one of us for that matter, go beyond the realm of "Old" Japanese tradition?

Now, before Andy and Smith get into a tizzy. I must qualify that you can only do this if you understand with great certainty and practice, of those Japanese foundations of the bonsai artform.

Hell Yeah I wanna be a Rogue Boar. But I am not there yet. I am still running with my humble pack of student pot bellies. Learning those techniques, studying the styles of other artists..(INCLUDING JAPANESE). Growing with my trees. And when, not if, my trees are in that realm that I want them to be, that is when I will go Rogue. Wait a minute....When the trees are where I want them to be....I will already be Rogue.....weird.

Walter, Nick Lenz and others have obviously gone beyond traditon. Booyah!!! Bravo! It is refreshing to see their work....and AL, I am not only envious of your experience with Walter, I am thankful it didnt go to waste on some schmuck that wouldnt appreciate it.

Thanks for the update!!!

BEHR,

YES YES YES, I totally agree.....with it all.

Paul

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It is essential to experience all the times and moods of one good place. (Thomas Merton)

BonsaiTalk is one good place. (me)

HB Smith

Hello all,

Please review the four previous posts in this thread and previous Classical vs. Naturalistic (i.e. rules vs. freestyle) threads and open mindedly ask yourselves who is not respecting an individual's or group's freedom to prefer a type of art. Go solo / individual all you want, but if you have to downplay or even insult another's preferred art style to advance it, you really need to ask yourself why.

"You cannot lengthen your own rope by shortening that of others."

Respectfully,
Howard

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Sincerely,
Howard

www.BonsaiSmiths.net

Carl_Bergstrom

Are Japanese stylings an aesthetic dead end?

While artistic genius may announce itself with thunderous force, it will not always burst into the world like thunder, earthquake, or fire.

No, true artistic genius (like the God of Elijah in the book of Kings) may sometimes be found in the subtlest whispers of expression.

Best wishes,
Carl

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In love with trees

bonsaial1

...

Wow! Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black.

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I been kidding the last seven years.
no.... really!

bonsaial1

Carl, I need a little more details with where your going with this?

__________________
I been kidding the last seven years.
no.... really!