Zen and Bonsai

malhomme

So what I have so far is this, bonsai is Zen because

• it is meditative
• it is minimalistic
• the style is the Zen aesthetic
• it centers around the love of nature

Any other perceptions anyone would like to add?

(I've heard others...)


Cheers,
Jim

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ripssurf

my question is: can anyone who lives or has lived strictly in the western world and not seen/experienced Japan really understand "zen" much less the aesthetic values? i seriously have my doubts...

jeff

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Vance Wood

Does this mean that we now have to do bonsai in the Belly Button Style? Just joking, I couldn't resist the parody. I don't have a problem with the philosophy of Zen, at least as much of it that I know about. I do have a problem with those that assert knowledge of Zen is central to bonsai. I do not, trees are central to bonsai.

All the other stuff is subservient to the tree, and centered around it. There is little evidence that a religion or philosophy adds little, or detracts from, the art. I have known deeply spiritual people that were deeply horrible artists. I have known real rotters as people that could produce beautiful bonsai or other works of art.

The problem I have with the Zen approach is the unlikelihood the philosophy is going to come up with anything new or innovative. From what I understand, an adherence to Zen is one of introspection, meditation and awareness of man's relationship with nature. This somehow seems diametrically opposed to the creative flow that requires an individual to conceive of and attempt to do those things not done before.

You know the sound of two hands clapping, but do you know the sound of one hand clapping? This is, as I understand it, a typical type of question in an understanding of Zen. The answer to one hand clapping: Yes I do, try it for yourself and you will understand---especially you guys. And in that answer you will find the key to a lot of philosophical double speak. So how will this help us make better bonsai?

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malhomme

Jeff,

If you have ever experienced kensho then you would understand that making such a strong association between Zen understanding and Japan is silly. The very experience itself is so universal that it is not owned by Japan. What is found in the moment of enlightenment is that there is an awareness that rests nowhere. It is absurd to the extreme to think that it rests in Japan.

If you have your doubts that this has been understood in the West by Westeners, speak to your local Zen priest, who has recieved their transmission from Japan.

I think it should be obvious to everyone that there is a misperception of the role of Zen in bonsai. I merely want to find out what those misperceptions are, without anyone feeling like they will get hit for saying something uninformed.

Kind regards,
Jim

zube

Your basic problem Jim, is that you "think it should be obvious to everyone". It is not. Many people are adamant in their belief that Zen and bonsai are inextricably interwoven. I think Mark R. said it best when he stated that this made no more sense than the idea that Presbyterians could somehow grow the best roses. From what I've read, the Buddhist monks were some of the first to practice what evolved into bonsai as we know it. Beyond that fact, the relation between the two seems to be a non-issue. On the other hand, the study of any philosophy that enables personal growth should be beneficial to all aspects of our lives. Even growing small trees in small pots.
Take care,
zube

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malhomme

And this is precisely why I want to hear from those people that think that they are interwoven. What is there perception of both that makes them think this?

I don't want to tell them differently, I want their feedback so I can understand the phenomena for myself.

Cheers,
Jim

Carl_Bergstrom

They're both, like, so deep and like, Eastern, you know?

-Crow

TreeBay

hmm yes Carl.

Well, bonsai accepts existence as a transitional state (maybe more than any art except sandpainting and sidewalk chalk), and is subject to such ideas as minimalism and continuous improvement, can be quite meditative (I lose track of time wiring), plays well into the wabi/sabi scheme with its elements of cultured simplicity, and then there are the happi coats worn by the raffle ticket sellers....

Regards,

Matt

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zube

Hopefully you'll get what you want Jim. But to me, it's only a misconception. And not a particularly surprising one, either. I certainly wouldn't call it a phenomenon.

Carl, whaduya mean Eastern? Japan's west of us. If you want to go east to get there, go ahead. But I refuse.

zube

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Sorry doesn't put thumbs back on the hand, Marge.
H. Simpson