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Old 11-Oct-2004   #41
John Dixon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipsan
I was there for Mr. Zhao's critique of Ron's trees and I think he reported it as it was interpreted. I also agree with John Dixon's view of the critque in general. Mr. Zhao ended up critiquing some 85 trees in 2 hours, complete with English translation. quite a feat to me. He seemed to be quite matter of fact about each and every critique. n amazing man.


Skipsan,

Glad to see you got home safe too. I really enjoyed the weekend and our conversations. We'll keep up BonsaiTalk until next time.

John
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Old 11-Oct-2004   #42
RonMartin(deceased)
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John

Stopped by my favorite water hole when I got into town last night. Thought you had followed me there. This is your Hummer isn't it.

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Old 11-Oct-2004   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Martin
John

Stopped by my favorite water hole when I got into town last night. Thought you had followed me there. This is your Hummer isn't it.



I wondered where I left it. Home James.

John
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Old 11-Oct-2004   #44
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For those of you that are trying to figure out just what the heck this thread is all about I thought I would take just a minute to explain.
My original thought was to post the pictures. Let everyone try to second guess Brook. Then I would post his comments and you could decide how close you came to the same conclusion that he did. Did you think alike or not.
Unfortunately the theme seems to have taken a bit of a turn. Maybe I should have explained it a bit better in the beginning.
Our club secretary was at this show. She can take notes just about as fast as one can talk. She followed Brook and his interpreter to each of the 85 trees on display. She took down just about every word he (or in this case his interpreter) said.
I took pictures of all 85 trees.
At a future meeting of my study group the pictures will be shown. Each member will have to try and see the trees through Brooks eyes.
At the end we will compare the members comments with the critique Brook did on each tree.
How far apart we are from him just might tell us something.
I was betting that something like that could be done here on this forum. Evidently not. Pity, it is an excellent teaching aid. It does force one to do more than just a cursory study of the artist in question. Not really a bad thing is it.
Anyway that was the intent. Just did not work out that way. Better luck next time.
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Old 11-Oct-2004   #45
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Critique conteste are not new to bonsaiTALK, I did one last year just about this timeShinji Critique

The difference was, Shinji only did six trees, not 85. This was a true critique of trees and referance was given as to how to improve the trees and what needed to be done that would be an immediate improvement. For me it was not the quality of the trees, but the same as you, "take half the stuff off the table so it doesn't look so cluttered". I have never foregotten that. I also ran a critique with Walter Pall, but I don't think I posted it.

I guess what I have a hard time excepting is the fact that even after everything that has gone on here at the forum about artistry, you can still exhibit trees in mica pots and just because someone does not mention it in a critique, you think it is OK, and are quite happy leading everyone else to that fact. I just feel that in the arena of bonsai display there are just some rigid elements that must not be broken, else the whole display looks amateurish.

I have little to say now, ans I feel that the subject is being belabored and stubborness will win out over substance.

Al Rutledge
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Old 11-Oct-2004   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonsaial1
I have little to say now, ans I feel that the subject is being belabored and stubborness will win out over substance.

Al Rutledge

Al
You're mumbling a bit. You want to get back on track.
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Old 11-Oct-2004   #47
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I'll second what John has already said about the critique. I will say that 'Brook'
was negative only to about 2 trees, and that only being because they had a few, What he would consider flaws, but the trees were already matured to the point that he couldn't offer any suggestions on how to make them better.
For the most part it was a very constructive critique. He did say that flaws, and suggestions on how to make them better, were done as if he owned or was styling the trees himself. That being said, it was a great weekend
It was mind boggling to watch Brook create his elm forest in just three hours. When he was done it looked as if it was many years old. Want to say a special thanks to Ron who kindly let me borrow his camera when my flash decided not to work. Thanks Ron!
Your rain tree is spectacular,and the trunk and knees on the cypress are unreal. Whebn the foilage fills out and matures it will be a show winner.

Kind Regards,

Dave
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Old 12-Oct-2004   #48
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Ron,
Last weekend I was actually up in your area. We headed up to North Carolina for my brother to look at colleges. Unfortunately, we were over in Charlotte, so we did not have time to see the show in Asheville. If school had been closed Columbus day, we probably would have made it on Sunday.

Anyways, I hope you enjoyed the show. I would have liked to hear what Brook had to say about your Elm, but it looks like things worked out for the best with it.
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Old 13-Oct-2004   #49
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Been trying to get the time to post my 2cents worth on Brook's critique of Ron's trees (since Ron asked those of us who were there to comment). Brook spent most of his time with this table on the raintree - he did seem to like the tree, but it had a 'pigeon breast' flaw that bothered him (what my Teacher calls it - think of a pigeon strutting about with its breast puffed out - every experienced person I know hates that. Brook didn't use those words, but he pantomined the pigeon very well. ). Brook turned the tree this way and that, looking for a new front or new planting angle that would solve the problem. That he spent that much time on the tree says to me that he liked it and wanted it to be better. In the end, he decided the existing front was close. My bet says Ron will play a bit with the angles next time he repots - but nothing much to be done now. As for the trunk - for a raintree, it is marvelously regular. Somebody posted a link to the North American "mother tree" (Jim Moody's tree)....look at how the trunk "pooches out" at every branch. Most annoying. Compare that to Ron's tree's trunk. His is spectacular. The canopy is suitably tropical. I was paying particularly close attention to this critique because I have a raintree I can only hope will look as spectacular in a few years.... If you've not seen a raintree before, this is hard to describe (their weird trunks). This is very hard to see in a 2D picture on the web.

Aside to Ron: Sorry I kept asking you that gauche bonsai question, "How old is it?"....What I really meant was, "How long 'til my little raintree trunk stops pooching and/or flattening out and starts looking darn near round like yours?" Judging by Jim Moody's tree - maybe as long as I leave branches there!

Brook moved from the raintree to the bald cypress. Brief discussion in Chinese with Karin (assistant/translator) about a brown piece of foilage...Nod. He seemed to like the massive knee & base. Moved on to next tree. I don't speak Chinese, but, reading their expressions, etc. Brook was satisfied that the (unfamiliar to him) tree species was doing its normal fall foilage color thing.

To be honest....I didn't follow the critiques on the other trees on this table that much - I was scribbling notes, and Brook spent most of this table's time on the raintree. This table was near the end of the trees - Brook had about 20min left to get thru this one and on to the last two. (He made it!) My main interest was the raintree.

As for pots - remember, Brook critiqued almost 85 trees in 2hr - as he was asked to do (show sponsors did not ask for an in depth critique of just a few; we show participants eagerly awaited the few comments he had time to make on our particular tree). He had something constructive to suggest on most of them; there were a few he said were too far along (mature) to easily 'fix'. He was honest about that and explained why and how to avoid it next time with a younger tree in development. He had already discussed 'right pot for this tree' several times. So, he spent time here on a new topic ('pigeon breast' flaw, though he didn't use that terminology).

Well - that's what I can remember of the critiques on Ron's trees. I will have some Expo pictures & will post them in other threads later this weekend - when I have time to figure out my new toy (film scanner)

640x640, right Matt?

If I have a good pic of my tree, I'll post it and Brook's critique on it (hint: he didn't much like it). Oh, well. I know why, and he did offer improvement suggestions. But, this is another thread. Later this weekend. When I do post it - I'll follow somebody's suggestion from one of these threads: Include my critique 'expectations', which are (briefly): Here it is - critique honestly, as brutal as you feel you must. Suggestions welcome. (But be polite.) In return, I reserve the right to accept as little or as much of the suggestions as I see fit. It is my tree, after all. You don't like my design; I don't win "Best Tree" in the show or "People's Choice". (You will note - I did NOT win either of those. LOL) Have at it then, Al.

P.S. I like the new smiley.
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