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bonsaikc

Invoice is what the dealer pays for the car. Holdback is what the dealer gets back from the manufacturer, which can actually decline the longer the car is in inventory. Domestic car companies will sometimes sell into their holdback, and have large rebates to offer as well. Some of the imports do, too.

However, remember that the $10,000 discount you see today on a big SUV will bite you in the butt when it's time to trade it in. Honda doesn't have rebates but does have the highest resale value of any cars in their classes. In the end it's cheaper to own some cars that cost a little more in the beginning but are worth a lot more in the end.

Wait, I didn't mean to hijack this thread.. My point is that profit is not only acceptable, it is imperative if an economy is to survive, and it is morally upright.

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Chris Johnston
"She was a critic, and lots fo critics who aren't called to do what they write about grow jealous and mean and small in their disappointment." - Stephen King, Duma Key
Sashi-no-eda.blogspot.com

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Dale Cochoy

"If you stay up until 2 a.m. reading threads that were posted on bonsaiTALK throughout the day, you would be suprised how well you can sleep at school."
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Charles,
Isn't that what study hall periods are for? Or are those long gone in the past? I'm out of touch. Haven't taught public school since 1979....

I remember when in high school in mid 60's if you fell asleep in study hall, they made you stand. Never understood that. When I was a teacher in late 70's We let 'em sleep. I figured they needed it after getting up at 6AM , or earlier, to get to school by 7AM ...so the teachers could go home at 2:30

"Well, we can't all be potters, lol."

Oh, I've done SO MUCH MORE than that!


"The strange thing is that I have given seminars on how to get the best deal at a car dealership, no one listens"

Uh huh!

"Just curious. Is the invoice price what a dealer really pays for a car or is that just what is on the sticker. Is there a invoice and then an onion skin price ;o)"

Well Ron, which of the 3 or 4 invoices are you talking about?
You could be talking about the one that they say they're selling cars at $100 OVER invoice or AT invoice. Or the one they figure rebates from, or the one....oh well!
I'm wondering how car makers are going to get out of this "rebate" thing now that people realize just how much manufacturers/dealers do make on cars when they still make a profit after rebate, company employee discount and financing discount if you finance with them ( at a much higher loan rate than you could get yourself).

Bonsaikc and Will,
Ya know...I meets lots of people who love to shop for cars ( read: look at them) but NO ONE who wants to talk to a dealer about buying one! There is a reason for that.

""The fact is that the price is on the window, but folks will rarely pay that, so they set their own price. How is that any kind of ripoff?"

Uh huh.
Everyone has examples, but,
A few years back my wife bought a 2001 PT Cruiser. The dealer tried to slip a $2,500 "Market Adjustment" in the final paperwork ( never mentioned it) because they were new and popular. One phone call to the home office customer complaint dept. of the chain took care of that. A blatant try at a rip off.
Last year I bought a new business van and caught the finance officer lying, poping in numbers and gouging loan rates ( BTW folks, if you buy a car, get a home equity loan ( the best idea, well below what a dealer will give you ) or go to your bank for the car loan, both will beat the hell out of the dealers made-up loan rate. The credit report numbers they get are just the bottom figuring point to start) . After some calls to the Ohio Attorney Generals office, the home office of their loan bank to ask a few questions and a meeting with all sales/loan and dealer GM we had a new contract written and I my deal miraculously dropped about $45 a month....over 5 years!!!! I didn't get anything more than I'd agreed to during shopping, I just got the right numbers plugged in!
While waiting in the dealership I looked at a new mustang with a "Price correction" 10% over msrp. the reason....availability. Of a car model 40 years old that has had , what 6-8, styling changes.
Well, I could go on forever. I can't understand for the life of me why a car dealer would rather have a customer bad-mouthing the dealership for THE REST OF HIS LIFE to make an extra $1,000 than to be honest right off the bat? It's amazing to me. I also can't understand why the manufacturers seem to condone it. Every night I see car ads spouting msrp prices that you could NEVER get at a dealership. Heck, why price a Ford GT at $148,000 when you can't get one below $250,000 and up to half million? What does the msrp mean? why doesn't Ford just price them higher and pocket more themselves instead of advertising a lie? I don't know who is the worst for that Ford dealers or Chrysler dealers or Chevy dealers.
You say you want a Crossfire at sticker price?
You say you want an SSR at sticker price?

"If you name a price for one of your pots, and I offer an insulting amount, who is less ethical?"

I should try....You say you want that pot at the price I have written on it?


"Why do people assume car dealers are crooks because they need to make a profit?"

That's not why people think car dealers are crooks! You know that. Don't you?

"Heck, I have given discount to people who didn't even ask for one"

Sorry, that did it...I gotta go...
Dale

__________________
________________________________
If you want to be Different....
You have to DO something Different!
__________________________________________

Some people NEVER take the time to do a job right the first time....
but, they always seem to make the time to do it over again...
____________________________________________
Dale Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio
Yakimono no Kokoro Bonsai Pottery
Hartville, Ohio

Dale Cochoy

[QUOTE=bonsaikc]However, remember that the $10,000 discount you see today on a big SUV will bite you in the butt when it's time to trade it in.

Not as much as paying 10%, 15% , or more, over MSRP from a rip off dealer for a new model ( or restyled model of an older model) because they are popular.
Dale

__________________
________________________________
If you want to be Different....
You have to DO something Different!
__________________________________________

Some people NEVER take the time to do a job right the first time....
but, they always seem to make the time to do it over again...
____________________________________________
Dale Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio
Yakimono no Kokoro Bonsai Pottery
Hartville, Ohio

dbz12fan

Dale,
Our school does not offer study hall period. However, we do get a 48 minute lunch. So, I do not feel like we are missing out much.


You are correct, most teacher's will not mind if you sleep in class. I have a health plan for a disability (Crohn's Disease) that says that I am allowed to sleep in class whenever I need to. So, whenever a teacher yells at me for sleeping in class, I just say that I will talk to them at the end of the period. This does not happen very frequently, though.

BTW, What did you teach in public school?

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"Success demands understanding"-Andy Rutledge

Charles Bevan
Vero Beach, Fl

ripssurf

now, us insurance people...we are the real crooks...

RonMartin(deceased)

Wow, now it's the car salesmen and insurance salesmen that are the crooks. Some how the lawyers got off scot free
One good thing about it. For a change no one is calling the bonsai shop owners crooks.
It is about time the wealth was spread around a bit. ;o)
Thanks guys for taking up the slack for a while.

Dale Cochoy

Yea, everyone realizes that, but....
only when a claim is filed and no matter what it is....it isn't covered


You are correct, most teacher's will not mind if you sleep in class.

I DID mind if they slept in class...it was when I had study hall teacher duty I didn't care about.
Snooze away dude....and let the girls laugh at the drool running down onto your desk!

I have a health plan for a disability (Crohn's Disease) that says that I am allowed to sleep in class whenever I need to. So, whenever a teacher yells at me for sleeping in class, I just say that I will talk to them at the end of the period. This does not happen very frequently, though.

Sorry to hear that. Seems fairly common to hear that nowadays. I hope you can control it ok. Years ago My sister
-in- law had a boyfriend with it and my bonsai teachers son had it.

BTW, What did you teach in public school?

Well, I taught drafting and wood shop in middle school 7th and 8th grade, all the boys AND girls.( Ind. Arts was my minor and had to teach that until I got a job in my vocation) until the lawyers took care of that in public schools.
I think they replaced woodworking with video games or game boy if I'm not mistaken. Now kids can't read a ruler or screw two boards together but, man, they got good thumbs!
Then I got a job teaching Vocational Electronics in a vocational school. That was my goal. ( I wonder if they are still allowed to use powered tools in vocational schools )
Then I went for the BIG BUCKS and repaired medical xray machines and some industrial xray machines for many years.
Now, well, I'm a fabulously wealthy bonsai businessman like Ron! and a lowly potter.
Dale

__________________
________________________________
If you want to be Different....
You have to DO something Different!
__________________________________________

Some people NEVER take the time to do a job right the first time....
but, they always seem to make the time to do it over again...
____________________________________________
Dale Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio
Yakimono no Kokoro Bonsai Pottery
Hartville, Ohio

ripssurf

just for clarification...im not one of those p and c guys (property and casualty). after hearing from people down here how (hard) it was to deal with everything in that field...id almost rather sell cars...

jeff

ripssurf

anytime ron...

jeff