Will this soil mix work?are these roots ok?

andytrace

hey there,

I bought a mallsai (chinese elm) 2day as it looked extremely healthy and from past experience the soil (in UK) is too dense clay etc! so i have repotted it instantly into an inorganic mix of 50/50 perlite/sharp sand!Will this be ok for the elm, how will it get nutriants?I heard chinese elms dont like fertaliser/nutriants added, but in inorganic soils is it ok to use?

I also have an old chinese elm too that i bought in Feb 2004, it started to lose all its leaves etc, i put it down to root rot and the fact that it was in dense clay!I have now repotted it into my 50/50 perlite/sharp sand mix. Is this a good idea. Can you look at the roots to see if they do have root rot?to me they seem less soggy than they have been so hopefully it is recovering.

Many thanks

Attached Images

	Elm roots.jpg (61.8 KB, 48 views)
	perlite sharp sand.jpg (45.9 KB, 50 views)

Advertisement

andytrace

here's a photo of the mallsai i bought! Not bad seems the soil was bone dry!!

Attached Images

mallsai.jpg (45.5 KB, 56 views)

FlyBri

Gday Andy and welcome!

I'm no expert on anything Bonsai related, including Chinese Elms, but I can tell you that they will require some portion of organic material in the potting soil. I use about 60% sifted potting mix to 40% sifted sharp gravel (basalt/'bluemetal'), plus a generous serve of pelletized organic fertilizer. Proportions of organic/inorganic ingredients will vary from tree to tree, and will differ according to your specific situation (location, climate, whether the tree is in a training pot).

By double clicking on the word 'soil' in your original post, you will open up the Wikipedia where you should get some ideas.

Good luck.

FlyBri.

PS: Is that a heater your tree is sitting on? Cute looking tree, BTW!

__________________
Australian Native Plants as Bonsai Study Group
ANPB Galleries
---
rrr.org.au - Support Free-Range Radio

andytrace

i know when i saw it i had to buy it, was so cheap too!

yea it was a heater but only for the photo and it wasn't on!! Its now on my window sill now with the window open slightly to keep it cool!It's waiting for when i either build it outdoor protection from the rain, or for when the rain stops!! haha
Will liquid nutriant feed not be suitable then? I am terrified of using anything that isn't free draining now due to my other bonsai getting root rot!i think it has anyway!

PatArizona

G'day Andy...

Smell your root ball...if it smells rotten, you have root rot.

Following is something that may help, if you have roor rot...

Are any of Your Bonsai Suffering From Root Rot?

If root rot has developed, you may see rapid wilting, the dying leaves turning dark and clinging to the stem; also, if your conifers have unusually dull foliage, or, generally any plant has smaller, yellow or sparser than normal foliage, and branches dying back for no apparent reason, root rot may be present. If the fungus is not eradicated, it will generally kill the plant.

Affected roots are soon rotted by other micro-organisms naturally occurring in the soil. The disease is then encouraged by poorly drained, waterlogged soils, wet and warm weather.


How can You Control/Avoid Root Rot?

A very free-draining open soil mix (maybe even with no organic matter) will make life very difficult for fungal spores. Remember that there is no way to reliably protect against root rot, other than to keep your trees very healthy, and use a fast draining soil mix. And, overwatering (particularly after root pruning) and a poor draining bonsai soil mix will provide access points for infection, and provide ideal conditions for the spores to grow. So, provide your bonsai with gritty, free-draining soil and avoid over watering.

Here is a Rather Generic Process for Treating Root Rot.
First, remove your bonsai from the pot, then try this:

• If the roots are black and smelly, it is undoubtedly root rot. If so,
• Rake out the roots with a root rake or a chop stick;
• Wash ALL of the old soil off your tree's roots, including all the black, rotten roots;
• Cut back on the black roots until you reach white cores;
• Discard the old soil and trimmings...not in your compost pile;
• Soak the root ball in a fungicide solution (follow directions on the label) for at least 10 minutes;
• Clean the pot using a fungicide or disinfectant (preferably both);
• Clean your tools and work area before continuing;
• Repot the bonsai in a fresh, fast draining soil…acoarse-grained soil like gravel and pine bark or pumice and pine bark (or even pumice with no organic component); and,
• Water thoroughly with a root stimulant solution (KLN, Roots2, Superthrive)...following directions on the label.

Aftercare:

• Place your bonsai where it will be protected from the wind, but with as much filtered sun as possible;
• Monitor water content of the soil...let the soil almost dry out before watering (ie., if the soil is bone dry, water yesterday), and water only when water is needed;
• For the next three weeks or so…EVERY TIME YOU WATER…water thoroughly using a root stimulant solution (KLN, Roots2, Superthrive)...following directions on the label;
• Keep the bonsai in partial shade or indirect sunlight for at least 10-12 days…in 2-3 weeks you should know whether or not this was successful; and,
• Then gradually, across 3-4 days, reintroduce the bonsai to normal sun light.

AS TOO SOIL...


There are many different soil mixes...from pure organic, to inorganic/organic, to pure inorganic. They all work...somewhere...sometimes.


My soil mix is inorganinc/organic about 10/1 to about 5/2, with less organic (less than 5 for junipers to....more organic for tropicals. However, my bonsai live in the Arizona High Desert...don't just blindly adopt my soil mix.


If you are a beginner (or not), you should hook up with a local club for, hopefully, the best advice.


Enjoy your bonsai...

__________________
BONSAI isn't about surviving in a storm, rather, how to dance in the rain.
THE ONLY WAY: Always remember, and don't ever forget, that whatever you read here is not cast in concrete... the intent of any advice is to help. In no way should you feel that I’m saying that my way is the only way…heaven forbid! I've seen far too much of the "my way or the highway" attitude in bonsai as well as in other areas of life.

Alasdair

Andy,

Where abouts in the UK are you? I live in the west Midlands and have my chinese elm potted in 50% organic, 25% perlite and 25% horticultural grit and this works fine for me. However, if you live in a wet part of Wales you'll need a very free draining soil to prevent your trees from drowning. When i started i lost many small trees to rootrot as i was in almost 100% organic with plenty of fine particles left behind and the water couldn't escape! As to fertilising your elm, in my experience the more you fertilise the more they grow. They can take off over night.

Al.

__________________
I can feel another "I wish that was my tree" moment coming on...
Currently studying BSc Plant Biology at the Universty of Wales, Aberystwyth

andytrace

hey guys thanks for all the help!

My dad said he could smell damp when i was asking for his advice, it doesnt sound too good!

PATARIZONA - u said to use a root stimulant when watering!what do you mean by this?Are there special products for this or do i just use normal root stimulant powder/gel (that you would normaly use on cuttings) and mix with the water?

I live south in Swindon (wiltshire, near Bath and Bristol),its been raining the last few days so i am scared of putting my trees outside untill i have created a shelter for them!

thanks guys

Aaron_K

Hi Andy,

If you can smell an "earthy" smell, that's good. If the smell is more like rotten eggs or sulphurous, then that's bad. As for your new soil mix, it will work fine for your location. Soils can be 100% organic, 100% inorganic (which you have) or a mix of both.

If you are going to use compost in the future, purchase a soil sieve set, and remove all the fine particles. The dust is what helps kill roots. When it becomes wet, it makes a swamp in your pot. Waterlogged soil = no room for air, which roots need too. After continued saturation, the roots suffocate, die, then rot.

Put your tree outside! It will appreciate the sunlight and air circulation. The perlite/sand mix will drain extremely fast and rain will not harm it. In fact, if you were to run the hose over it, I bet water wouldn't even pool on the surface. Just be careful that it doesn't dry out on hot days. August is tipped as going to be the hottest on record, although looking outside at the drizzling rain - I can't see it myself lol.

As you are using 100% inorganic components as your soil medium, you will need to use fertilizers in order for the tree to grow. Purchase something like babybio and use at half the manufacturers recommended dosage. Feed from March to October (or whenever the tree breaks bud till it loses its leaves).

Chinese elms will lose their leaves come autumn if left outside, so that is nothing to worry about. Give it a bit of protection from frosts and cold winds during the winter months. Putting it in a shed or garage would be a good choice, as they require no light when out of leaf - but keep an eye out for rodents digging the soil look for something to eat! Water only when the soil begins to dry out in the winter, as the trees requirements are greatly reduced as there is no foliage to "fuel".

You could bring it inside during the winter. This will mean it won't lose its leaves. However, trees tend to be a bit weaker if not given a dormancy period. Both of mine stay outside, and even got snowed on a few times. When this happens I move them under the shelter, as snow has a habit of melting during the day, soaking your soil, and then freezing the following night. Frozen roots can result in damaged or dead trees! A good tip to remember is - What happens below the soil surface affects what you see above it.

I'd also recommend purchasing a couple of books on bonsai as this will help you significantly. Ebay is a good place to look. I get all mine from there and have paid a fraction of the RRP for them. Anything by Harry Tomlinson, Peter Chan, Craig Coussins or Herb L Gustafson is a good place to start.

Hope this helps.

All the best,

Aaron

andytrace

Yay it didn't smell like rotten eggs!does that mean he should be ok!!

Your all awfully helpfull in here, iv been trying another forum but the replys are normally short and all things iv read about before!
I just waterd my trees and your right the water flows strate through to the bottom and flooded my window sill!il go place them outside somewhere out of the wind soon (this wont be too much of a shock for a just bought mallsai which came from a warm indoor climate will it?)

Im downloading an ebook by Peter chan but its been taking a few days!

I have "bonsai nutriants" at a 4/6/6 NPK mix!will this do, should it be full or half the reccommended strength?