When Artistry Interferes with Objectivity

Carl_Bergstrom

Not even if you get it backwards?

-Crow

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Will_Heath

Again Jim, with all due respect, we are talking about slanting trees. This is where it started with Al showing a slanting tree with the roots on the lean side and stating that it worked. I disagree that a style is defined by it's roots, instead I think a style is determined by the trunk.


Bonsai styles have been "lumped" into style categories long before you or I were born, I see no better way to define styles then the way it has long been done.


Thank you for your insightful, honest critique. I have to point out that the center of the apex is in fact directly over the root base, which would qualify it as a informal upright by almost any definition.


I again have to disagree, if a tree in nature is in violation of any physical laws it will topple over, period.


I believe that Al and I have already agreed that having the rootage on the side away from the lean is indeed the best way artistically.


I agree with you here. Please keep in mind that I did not quote this, I simply corrected a misquote.

Your own bonsai shown here seems to show what I was trying to say, the rootage being on the side away from the lean, great example!



Thank you,


Will Heath

grampz

Or possibly intentionaly reverse a quote to make a valid point?...

Regards
Behr

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TreeBay

Ron this is an improper post. I suggest you delete it and apologize.

Regards,

Matt

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RonMartin(deceased)

Matt
I edited the offensive sentence out. Will that work.
If not then I will delete the whole thing.

Emperor Fish

I think that what Mr Naka may have been trying to convey, (and I am only suggesting an intention behind the words), was that in order to create beautiful bonsai, one must study 'beautiful' trees in nature in order to understand what makes them evocative, so that we may have some hope of transposing these ideals upon our art, which, by definition, is about evocative trees. If one reads the "let the birds fly through" quotation as an indication that negative space in art is also important, and that bonsai without clearly defined foliage areas tend to look like bushes rather than trees, then I believe that these oft-quoted "Naka-isms" contain much truth that is perhaps overlooked by the mantra-quoting plebeans.

Regards,

Fish.

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Will_Heath

Some examples from our own gallery here...

http://pictures.bonsaitalk.com/show...&cat=all&page=2

http://pictures.bonsaitalk.com/show...&cat=all&page=1

http://pictures.bonsaitalk.com/show...&cat=all&page=1

http://pictures.bonsaitalk.com/show...&cat=all&page=2

http://pictures.bonsaitalk.com/show...&cat=all&page=2

http://pictures.bonsaitalk.com/show...&cat=all&page=2

http://pictures.bonsaitalk.com/show...&cat=all&page=1

http://pictures.bonsaitalk.com/show...&cat=all&page=1

http://pictures.bonsaitalk.com/show...&cat=all&page=1

http://pictures.bonsaitalk.com/show...&cat=all&page=3

Aaron_K

Personally, I think that whether the roots are on the lean side or opposite to it, is neither here nor there. It all comes down to the individual tree, personal taste and nature itself.

If every semi cascade or slanting style trees, all had the nebari on one side or the other, wouldn't it be rather boring? Both Al and Will have presented very beautiful examples of both. So I fail to see what this arguement is achieving, other than hostility, resentment and almost school yard like bickering. So unless you both want a spanking and sent to bed with no supper - behave!

Surely the one thing that should be learnt here, is that BOTH examples will be found in nature, and that bringing out the hidden beauty in each tree should be the most important factor.

Regards,

Aaron

Carl_Bergstrom

Bull-turnips! The fact that both types of trees are found in nature gives you no license whatsoever to ignore the basic principles of artistry.

(Or are you saying that the placement of the roots depends on the message the artist is trying to convey and the subtle details of the tree's form? In that case, I retract my emphatic "Bull-turnips" and agree with you entirely.)

The interesting posts to this thread have attempted to characterize just what these artistics principles might imply for the position of the nebari in an aesthetically successful bonsai design. I've learned a lot from this thread, through the exercise of thinking about exactly this problem.

Best wishes,
Carl

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