What is Bonsai Ability Level?

Jay

OK..... I have been makeing a big deal about my level of knowledge being..... Novice. Well what does it mean? How many levels of ability are there? Is there an actual ranking system, or am I free to develop one?

I throw out for your pleasure the following:

1- Newbie.................... no trees, no knowledge, only desire
2- Beginner..................I got my first tree, .... ..... what do I do?
3- Advanced Beginner..My first tree(s) made it for 6 months
4- Novice..................... I have trees that have survived more than a year. They are in training with a goal in mind. I still need direction and help. I do have some knowledge and a bit of confidence..
5- Journeymen............I have fairly good knowledge on my own trees, I can see the tree inside raw material most of the time. I may have killed my share of trees, but feel confident in my ability.
6- Advanced............
7- Craftsman...........
8- Expert.................

OK this is a start..... you may not like my 8 levels of rank.... you may want more or you may want less. You may not agree with my description of each rank.... I do not know if I like it either....
It would be nice to hear your opinion of my proposed system and your honest opinion of your position within it!

__________________
A Bonsai student living with his trees at N 44.37 W 77.49...
Think before you act... then think again... no good comes from rushing

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groan

When I had my lot of trees (had to sell or give away most due to a change of living arrangements) I fell into the Novice or even Journeyman. I have been away from bonsai for soo long, I'm not sure where I fall anymore!
According to your chart, I think I am still a novice.

I like it! It is a good starting point that may be fleshed out to include skillsets and such.

__________________
Groan
Site Admin for
The Great Canadian Bonsai

Treebeard

Hi Jay

I would class myself as "a novice with some knowledge" also.
I've been doing bonsai for 4-5 years now, this year is the first year without dead trees (one quite sick though).
Now that I am able to keep the things alive for more than a year, I can now start to plan the future and try to see the "tree within the shrub", so I suppose that puts me about 4.1 ish.

regards

__________________
"Do not be hasty, that is my motto"
-JRR Tolkien, The Two Towers.
-----------------------------------
christopherguise.co.uk

Ralph

I am number 2 on the Jay scale. I had been meaning to buy a bonsai for some time, not understanding what it was. In late June I bought a juniper from a Taiwanese craft shop in a Mall here in Dallas. I took it home and began to look up Bonsai on the internet (yeah, I know horse before the cart...). As I read, I became more interested, and I had been looking for a hobby that wasn't over demanding of my time. This seemed to fit the bill. I have since bought videos, books, some tools and 3 bougainvilleas, 2 japanese red maples from nursery, and received a donation of two Texas live oak seedlings and a hackberry seedling. I also bought a cheap folding table as a work bench.

I consider my present material, juniper included, nothing more than practice material at this time. Don't get me wrong, I want them all to be great bonsai, but I made a few clasic mistakes already, and I am sure there are more on the way, so if I lose them in the process of learning, I will consider myself better for the knowledge I have gained from them. I haven't yet committed myself to a visit to the local bonsai club, becuase I still don't know if I have 100% commitment over the long haul, but if I am still in it by the first of next year, that will be my next step.

I need to commit myself to doing something with the juniper. When I bought it, it was a cute mallsai (not the ones with glued on rocks, but still not a true bonsai), now it has begun to grow wild. I have trimmed and pruned it some, but don't have a clue for the style. I think I want to repot it in the fall and let it grow some more.

I have the bougies and the maples each in 5 gallon pots . I have wired one of the maples, and am attempting an air layer on the other. I have one of the bougies wired, and have not figured out yet what to do with the other two. Other than that, I am reading, and learning. Just ordered John Naka's Bonsai Techniques I, today from the IBC. I find it hard to believe they are offering this book for $25 U.S. when everyone else sells it at triple because it is out of print, but hey at just $25.00 I can afford to be curious.

Carl_Bergstrom

I propose instead that we use the Popeye scale. There's exactly one ranking:

I ams what I am.

Why rank people? Why say I'm a three, you're a seven, he's a four? Why assume that bonsai knowledge and ability is anything close to one single axis? There are so many axes. Some people are incredible horticulturalists; others have an amazing artistic eye but can't even root a willow cutting. Some have wonderful trees but don't teach well; others know a great deal and have read widely and make terrific suggestions but for one reason or another (often financial) they have yet to acquire many trees of any significant quality.

The only reason I can see for having ranks on here is so that people can know what to make of the advice that they are given. I don't know that ranks help, though. If I keep my shut when I don't know what I'm talking about, my advice when I do give it is worth more, whatever my rank, than if I go off to try to impress everyone
every chance I get, making stuff up if need be.

Much better to just be honest about the advice we give, in the following way:

Explain any advice that you post.

If you're gonig to tell someone to plant their new pine in pure akadama, explain why:

I think that you should plant your new pine in pure akadama because:

• That's what I've been doing with my pines for 24 years, and I find that it works better than soil mixes with more organics because....etc., etc. Or
  
• That's what a respected club member told me to do three years ago, and I've done it with my two whites pines, and they've both done great. Or
  
• That's what it says to do for pines in X's book, which I consider to have the best horticultural advice of the 11 books I own. Or
  
• I planted three maples in pure akadama this spring and they love it so pines should too. Or
  
• I think I remember Matt saying something about akadama and I though I don't really know what it is, Matt's cool and besides, akadama is a cool Japanese word that's fun to say aloud.

Do that, and then we don't need ranks. The reader knows exactly what they're getting when they're getting advice.


What do you think?

-Old Mister

---

All that said, Jay, I admire your honesty and your efforts to not appear to be more or less than you are.

Anyone who would rather be honest than impress me ends up doing both.

__________________
In love with trees

groan

Great Quote!
"Anyone who would rather be honest than impress me ends up doing both."

can I use that?

__________________
Groan
Site Admin for
The Great Canadian Bonsai

Jay

OMC... you are right.....mostly! There are sooo many different area's one can have various levels of ability. You could be way advanced in keeping trees alive, transplanting and pruning, but have s#@t for brains when it comes to picking out stock...etc etc.

I thought this to be an easy way for others to come out.... and let us know from where they stand.... in their own mind. Really that is what matters.. To stop and rate yourself, honestly, is as you must know very difficult! I like to know who I am speaking to. On the net that is difficult. When I seek advise (or give it) I like to know where the person is. Hell, I have been on a crusade to get everyone to list their zone or where they live and have fallen flat on my face.... so this is just another attempt to get people talking.

There are a lot of people who come to this board... how many memebers are there? But few stay or at least contribute. Perhaps if they are drawn out as a beginner or a novice or a..... they will feel more at easy. I firmly believe that everone has something to contribute... I am sure I can and will learn from beginners as well as those more advanced than I.

OMC... I did ask for opinions on the system, I glad to hear yours, and I still do not know if I like it. But I do like the interaction..... keep it coming!

__________________
A Bonsai student living with his trees at N 44.37 W 77.49...
Think before you act... then think again... no good comes from rushing

David Chauvin

Jay & Crow,

You both have good points. But on the internet, you have to take almost everything with a grain of salt. Where did that saying come from anyway? Jay...with your system, you still have to trust people to rank themselves honestly. Crow...if someone can't or won't justify their opinion it should be ignored or get a second opinion. I've read stuff in books by well known "experts" that just doesn't work in south Louisiana. Do I have a point here? If it's about a tree you really value and you don't know if the advice given is horse%#@!, assume it is.

David

__________________
"With the death of the Shamen, artists are the last interpreters of the Divine." Joseph Campbell

Carl_Bergstrom

Thanks, and sure. The converse is usually true as well.

Cheers,
Old Mister

__________________
In love with trees