U.S. vs. Overseas Bonsai...

Penn State

If you don't mind i'd like to give some input from the younger side of American bonsai as we know it. I think that like many of you have already said, we are producing great trees and we have some great people in america. But we cannot hold a candle to the heritage and lineage that is connected with some of the Japanese masterpieces. So to compare something that is 100+ years old to our virtually new material is just ridiculous.

I personally think American bonsai shouldn't be anything less than what it is, progressive. We have always been the progressive nation to take things to the extreme. Some things for the better, and some for the worse, but none the less we are always exploring. I think this is just what bonsai needed. A group (read as nation) to be willing to break the rules that were made hundreds of years ago. I think this will inevitably make bonsai all over the world better.

While we are experimenting with new and sometimes outlandish ideas we should keep in mind that the Japanese have been doing this WAY longer than us. So there should be a certain amount of respect for everything they produce. I think the relationship should be very father-son oriented. I think we are always way too fast to lash out and bash another group b/c they aren't doing what we are. I think we will be fine and are headed in the right direction as long as realize that we should respect those that have been doing bonsai longer.

To finalize, i know i've done some horrible things to trees and most likely if they were small furry creatures i would have been imprisoned by animal rights activists. But i am sure that not every bonsai artist in japan creates or cares for 100+ year old trees. Surely there are different levels that bonsai is practiced just like in the US. So to say that "he is Japanese, he must be a master" would just be ridiculous. And likewise for them to say that "he is American, he isn't good." is bad. I think we should learn from others, and worry about our own. Oh yea, and try not to kill them in the process.

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Will_Heath

Do you have any examples you could share with us, Ron?





I have to agree 100% I feel we have the world's biggest and best untapped resource for yamadori. I would prefer to keep this knowledge to myself.


Will

RonMartin(deceased)

Where do you want me to start.? Major US artist.
In no particular order ( and I am sure that others will add to this list)
Chase and Soli Rosade
Jim Smith
Ed Trout
Jim Vanlandham (sp)
Jim Barrett
Bill Valavanis
Randy Clark
Guy Guidry
Keith Scott
Jim Moody (deseased)
Jim Doyle
Mary Madison
Mary Miller
Suthin Sukosolvisit
Brussel Martin
David DeGrout
I could go on but I bet that there are others that will want to add to this list.

Major Collections.
The National Arboretunm in DC.
The Pacific Rim Collection
The Phips Conservatory in Pitsburg.
The Broklyn Botanical Gardens.
Again I could go on and on. But why bother.

Carl_Bergstrom

Maybe what I wrote wasn't clear enough, Ron.

Here's what I wanted to say, broken down in pointwise form.

1) North America has untapped veins of yamadori material as big or bigger and as good or better than that found anywhere in the world.

2) One major source of world class bonsai is the flow of superb yamadori to a series of professionals who develop that material on a 25+ year timescale.

3) In North America, we are not executing (2) with anything like our full potential, because there are relatively few knowledable people collecting, relatively few professional growers developing this collected material, and relatively few world-class talents working with it, and relatively few collectors/enthusiasts putting in the money to back the entire enterprise.

4) That will change in my lifetime, I hope to contribute to that change, and this potential is a source of tremendous excitement to me.

You've given us (A) a list of artists who for all their talents don't have the access that they potentially could to ready-developed world class collected material and (B) a list of a few high quality collections that show some good native yamadori and also draw extensively on imported material.

I don't see how these serve as counterarguments to anything I've said, much less as evidence that I've "not bothered to look" or whatever it was that you accused me of.

Ron, I'm saying American bonsai could be so amazing, and it will be so amazing, within the next 50 years. I'm not putting down how far we've come in the last 50 years when I say we could go so much further in the next. If there wasn't this sort of room for spectacular advance, we'd be that much poorer for excitement in this artform. You're accusing me of complaining that our glass is half empty. I'm just so excited at the rich drink we can pour into that top half.

Best regards,
Carl

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Cosen

Andy has an reply aswell.

Gr. Dave

Alasdair

what if it is about the master and not the tree? maybe it is just unfortunate that the best bonsai artists live in certain areas, creating an uneven distribution of the best bonsai.

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Will_Heath

Out of this fantastic list of names you have given us could you tell me which ones are producing "World Class" bonsai that can stand head to head with what is being produced and/or shown in other countries?

Thanks,

Will

rockm

Forgive me Will, but have you seen any of these artist's trees in person, up close? Wait a second, before you get defensive, I ask not to put you down, but to sincerely ask an honest question.

I've seen Chase Rosade, Bill Valavanis, Mary Madison, Ed Trout, John Naka, Nick Lenz, and a few others trees first hand, alongside Japanese masters' trees. They are world class trees if that means standing up to the best offered from Asia and Europe. You can do a search on just about anyone on that list and come up with images online of their trees. Pictures rarely do any bonsai justice though.

Will_Heath

As a matter of fact I have, I have taken the time to go out of my way on vacations and mini trips to see any collection within the areas I go to. Such wonderful collections as The National Arboretum in DC, Franklin Park Conservatory and Botanical Garden, Chicago Botanical Gardens, Michigan State University’s and a few others. I am always looking for the chance to see more.

On a trip to Italy a couple years back I had the opportunity to see some bonsai by Valerio Gianotti and see the Bonsai Museum at Crespi Bonsai in Milan. One thing that struck me was how many of these masterpieces were yamadori collected from the area.

I have also studied online images of these artists mentioned and others comparing them to Asia and European efforts. You are right, bonsai are quite different when you're standing in front of them.

Now Mark, that being said, would you say that the quality of US bonsai is exactly even with that of other countries, Asia for example? Are you saying that we have indeed matched this country with quality?

Will