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24-Apr-2004
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#1 |
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bonsaitalker
Join Date: Mar-2004
Location: Williamsburg/Memphis
Country: USA
USDA Zone: virginia/tennessee
Posts: 107
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Are Trident Maple Brooms Taboo?
hello, folks!
I am curious. Every time I do research on Tridents, I get the same standard line about how tridents are very good for various styles, except broom. Is there a reason for this? Or is it just a super secret bonsai conspiracy against Tridents? Other trees don't want the tridents to get too uppity?   Best! Paul Last edited by bonsaibeginner : 25-Apr-2004 at 12:23 AM. |
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Are Trident Maple Brooms Taboo? |
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24-Apr-2004
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#2 |
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bonsaiTALK Master
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i don't think that maples broom is a taboo. I have seen lots of maples in broom styles but none of them is very good looking, it's just a matter of personal preference. As far as i know, maples have the bad habit of growing long internodes( internode is the distance between 2 leaf nodes) which doesn't suit them well for broom where you want a dense bushy foliage. That's why you use informals which kinda replicate the way these trees look in the nature.Hope i answered your question
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24-Apr-2004
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#3 |
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Attila Soos
 Join Date: Jan-2002
Location: Los Angeles, California
Country: USA
Posts: 1,946
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It depends on how do you define the broom style.
There are two categories of broom style: 1) Classic broom. This is defined by strict rules: straight, perfectly shaped trunk from which the head of a broom emerges. Zelkovas and elms are used for this style. This is an example of a classical broom style: http://www.shohin-bonsai.com/yuga/y18-022.htm Techically, you can achieve this with a trident maple, but it would be culturally insensitive. You would be mocking the tradition. No point of doing that. 2)Informal variations of the broom. This is a cross between informal upright and classical broom. Walter Pall calls it naturalistic style. It is also called Candle style. You can see this in japanese bonsai, but they put it in the informal upright category. I find Informal Broom the best name for this style. Trident maple is perfectly suitable for this style. This is an example of the informal broom: http://www.shohin-bonsai.com/yuga/y20-104.htm Note: the classification of styles and forms is not standardized across different cultures. Ask a Chinese, Japanese, or European bonsai artist, you will get different variations of the same topic. Regards, Attila |
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24-Apr-2004
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#4 |
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Tips:5¢ Advice:Free
 
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A big cultural problem with type 1 and Tridents is that the tridents tend to swell up a lot where you have multiple branches coming from the same point, causing reverse taper and a knobby appearance that isn't very broomlike.
Regards, Matt
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24-Apr-2004
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#5 |
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bonsai is not my hobby
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Thi is a European mountain maple. This is the natural growth pattern of a maple. Does not look at all like the trident maples we see in bonsai magazines.
I think this could well be used as an image for styling a trident maple. And indeed I call it informal broom form. It is kind of funny that one of the most common forms of natural deciduous trees has to be reinvented for bonsai because it is not yet in bonsai books. best regards Walter Pall |
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24-Apr-2004
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#7 |
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bonsaitalker
Join Date: Mar-2004
Location: Williamsburg/Memphis
Country: USA
USDA Zone: virginia/tennessee
Posts: 107
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Thanks, everyone, for the information. Walter, I have quoted you before in another thread here, about halfway down talikng about this same subject, because you and I are in complete agreement here. The picture of the mountain maple you posted is unbelievable, and it's what I'm working toward in my trident. In fact, it has a very similar overall shape to the picture you posted.
So, Matt, people recommend against it with Maples b/c they tend to get knobby, which ruins the whole effect? Interesting, indeed! When I get a better camera, I will take a better picture of mine! Very Best Regards, Paul |
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25-Apr-2004
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#8 |
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Greybeard
 
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While I find the majestic picture of the Tyrollian Alps and the maple fascinating, and the maple wonderful in this setting, many people would find the tree not very artistic when placed in a bonsai container.
Now, there have been many fine trees that imitate nature in perfect detail, and while it requires much creativity and artistic ability to achieve that, the power conveyed in one of those squat heavy trunked finely groomed tridents is what we are 'accustomed' to seeing as artistic. Too bad really....
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25-Apr-2004
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#9 |
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Greybeard
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The only sort of broom trident I have.
Height: 8" 22cm Trunk at soil line: 3" 7cm Trunk at 1" above soil: 1.5" 3.5cm Working this year on ramfication of the branches, and building a domed form. Coming along pretty well. This tree was in this pot two years ago for the previous two years. I took it out two years ago and put it into a box for grow out of the branches. This is the tree that Carl Bergstrom was making fun of in the Gallery picture of the hoop stand. I think he was asking where the trident was in the pic? It was repotted this year back into the same pot. The nebari is doing really well and the flare is very good. I am still developing surface rootage and that is working out nice too. Next year it goes into a flatter oval dish. At that time I will uncover the rest of the flare and expose the other inch of nebari. 4" across at the soil and exposed roots. It should be nice then. Right now I have the tops of the roots covered with moss to keep them juicy and growing fatter. They are! Cheers, Al
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Real men don't wear coats with "happi" in the title. |
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25-Apr-2004
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#10 |
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bonsaitalker
Join Date: Mar-2004
Location: Williamsburg/Memphis
Country: USA
USDA Zone: virginia/tennessee
Posts: 107
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Not artistic in a pot, you say? hmmm... I'm not so sure. I haven't been in bonsai very long, but in pictures that I have seen from the 1970's in books and on the internet, I have noticed that they have one thing in common - they are basically the same in many respects.
I think Walter's idea of a more naturalistic style is roughly evuivalent to a Happy Gilmore approach to golfing, or a Wilt Chamberlain approach to basketball. It doesn't really break the rules, but it it adds a different dimension to the art - what I think is also trying to be done with Popbonsai (although I'm not a fan of that particular trend, I can respect what she's trying to do.). No sport or art remains stagnant for too long without eventually breaking some barriers. I'm not saying there's no value in the tradition. Heavens no! But, I think the analogy is this - Before the slam dunk, everyone spent valuable effort refining what was already there: the three-pointer, the free-throw, and the lay-up. Why? Because these were, and still are, extremely difficult skills to master. They haven't disappeared, either, because they will always be essential. But, banging the boards, no-look-passes, the double-pump, and the behind-the-head slam dunk have their places, too. There seems to be a lot of resistance to change, and understandably so; it's ancient, it has worked in the past, and it has almost become ritualistic. You don't go putzing around with something that works. But, on the other hand, the invention of the flourescent light didn't do away with Edison's lightbulb, either. Just my thoughts. And by the way, Al, I like your trident. I have a question, though, that anyone can answer. I have spent a lot of time looking at bonsais and tridents lately, and I have found that my trident differs from almost all of them out there with respect to the bark. Then someone posted this link earlier note the striations!. It's the exact same as mine! What gives? Are there several different types or what? For reference, I've included a pic of my trunk's striations. Last edited by bonsaibeginner : 25-Apr-2004 at 02:19 AM. |
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