Thought Process of a Beginner

hansvanmeer

Hi Zen,

Well now you don it you have gon to far! Not to worry , you mide just have don the right thing! This materiale hase hardly any future, it wil take a very long time for the foliage to come any closer to the trunk, and even then there is not much movement going on there!
What you gould do is this: when this small tree has grown plenty of roots and stands firmly in its pot (important), cut the branches more or les like you did in #6, than wrep the trunk with rafia or bandage , than some heavy wire.
And then bend it something like in the pics i posted. I have don this as a project with some of my studends, and you be surpriced how nice the are now after a cople of years! Some of them have made a shari all along the trunkline and have become realy nice shohin. You shout give this a try, you mide end up with a pritty small bonsai, other wise i think it is going to be a strugle for you because there is not much there to work with for you anyway!
Best of luck,
Hans van Meer.

Attached Images

	Captured Photos 00057.jpg (28.0 KB, 32 views)
	Captured Photos 00058.jpg (25.8 KB, 21 views)
	Captured Photos 00059.jpg (35.2 KB, 29 views)

Advertisement

zenwarrior

This thread was started with the intent not only for my education, but for those reading who may gain something from it as well. Many times as beginner it is difficult to see the forest for the trees (pun intended). Thank you Vance and Hans for taking the time to comment. This is my only means of learning aside from actually working with stock.


I need to rethink this one, but I will keep the thread updated so we can all see the transition through the years as I evolve from novice to bonsai master. It'll be great.

__________________



Failure is the key to success; each mistake teaches us something.

-Morihei Ueshiba

triotary

But you must see that Art is an expression with no fundamentals. It is also a talent and not a skill. An art form is not a replication of another subject or a manufactured product. You know it when you created one, as you will be in so much doubt, and yet you will feel confident.

What one will learns through here and experiences will only contribute to your skills and not talent. Talent cannot be taught, but yet it is very subjective. But not to a point that anything could be considered one. One with talent will still takes time to create art, but when it comes, it comes naturally.

So let's create art and not manufacture one.

triotary

When did nature says that a thick trunk is a must for a true form of a tree? When did nature says that a tree to be considered a tree, it must grows to 30ft? When did nature says that a sexy gal must be the one on the catwalk from Paris? When did art has be follow any forms or subjects? When did art has to follow any scale or match any size?

But that does not means that anything could be art. Art is a very tacky, superficial and subjective issue. And as in the case of bonsai, it mostly exists in our sight. Thus it exists throught the eye of the beholder. So create art with compositions, scales, colors, etc. When perfected, a true art form is undeniable could be an eye candy or controversial, or both.

Vance Wood

I am not certain what you are saying here so I will simply respond in the way the post hit me.



Nature did not say it, nature did it. To be sure there are all sorts of trees out there that are every bit as ugly as many of the ugliest bonsai. However in the realm of bonsai, as has been practiced for hundreds of years, there are certain forms trees can take in nature that we, as human beings, deem attractive. It is these forms that the bonsai artist attempt to emulate in miniature.

Yes truly art is in the eye of the beholder and yes you can argue every which way from the middle what art is. In the end those with an interest in the art will determine for themselves what art is. Whether your, mine or everybody else's point of view line up is subjective. Crapola is also in the eye of the beholder and the same rules apply. The difference is determined by a majority of people with like minds that either praise the work and follow the model, or curse it and wish it would go away.

__________________
The only finished bonsai is a dead one; me 1992 MABA Des Moines Iowa

midwestbonsai

Thats the way it should be. IMO there's nothing better.
-Paul

__________________

triotary

What I have been saying is that Art has no fundamentals. As long as you are artful with your talent and technique, you could achieve beautiful art form that adheres to no rules.

Pot sizes, compositions, foliage, etc. could be carefully chosen and detailed to create beautiful subjects. You do not need to have a thick trunk to be a thick trunk.

Vance Wood

Not wishing to stir up and endless and for the most part rhetorical argument I submit the following. There is no such thing as art. That which we define as art is a representation of something that pleases our sensibilities as human beings. Understanding that there are certain events or stimuli that psychologically can be presented to human beings and analyzed as to the response these events or stimuli evoke with some sort of accuracy across the human population. The things that please humans, things that repulse humans, and things that provoke humans can for the most part be put into a set of categories, lacking a better word.

These responses can to some degree be demonstrated and cataloged as to what stimuli will cause which response. For instance; laughter and yawning both can be what is known as contagious. If you get enough people laughing the act of laughter can be its own source of laughter, the same is true of the yawn response.

For better or worse Art kind of falls into the same category. If you produce some sort of statement in stone, wood, paint, music or literature and a lot of people respond to that effort favorably and enthusiastically then you most likely have produced art. On the other hand if you, having done the same, and a lot of people respond with disgust, or with an act of shunning, then odds are you have created "Un-Art", or something worse.

Like it or not years of experience and observation have shown that favorable responses are usually provoked by "A", "B", and "C". Therefore it is possible to assign guidelines to achieving responses from those who view hear or read a work, that is intended as art. So in short art is a stimulated response from a group of observers that generally tends toward the favorable. To some degree as societies change these responses change and the responses to particular stimuli will change as well. This means that one generation's art may be another generations garbage.

The reason our understanding of this issue is so clouded is that "This Generation" has for the most part been so aggressive and successfully in selling a point of view where feces in a mason jar can be considered art. The majority of the public that have not thought a lot about these issues shrug their shoulders and accept these things as true, usually with the caveat that "I agree it is art, it is just no my thing" response, not really believing what they are saying but fearing instead the contempt of the nuvo-elite branding them as ignorant savages not capable of seeing the finer points of art; The King's New Clothes.

We have seen an era where what art is has been defined by artists making their own definitions and telling you, me, and us that what they have done is art and you must accept it as so----even if you don't like it.

__________________
The only finished bonsai is a dead one; me 1992 MABA Des Moines Iowa

sauce

How true but you must also throw in the exhibitors who accept and show this type of 'art', they are also "telling us this is art" by promoting it. I can't draw a stickman but if I could puke the right color into a toilet I could call it art! Well said Vance!