There Is No Fence Rail Large Enough...

bonsaial1

OK, the title sucked you in. Ha! This is another art thread, cowering behind a tricky title.

My lead in does have to do with the title though. As most of you know, ( if you have been here for a couple years) I can sit on both sides of the fence at any given moment. I flip flop more than John Kerry! I like the debate and do not really care which side I'm on, just like throwing more fuel on the fire with the provacative questions. Right Fred!

So.. I start by saying, Is bonsai really an Art? Can it truly be defined by the same rules that come with sculpture, music and painting?

For instance: The painter starts with a blank canvas and collects his/her paints. The paint can be put to canvas with complete abandon and spirit. The artist is not confined by the process, and has complete control of the medium. The same for a sculptor or potter. They take the lifeless lump of clay and force their will into the lump and are free to craft without stops.

But bonsai is full of problems. There are roots to deal with, branches that do not fit the artistic ideas within the artists mind. One can not "do" bonsai with reckless energy like a painter or sculptor. The horticultural needs of the plant must be met first and formost, with artistry as a subtle footnote.

One can plan for the future and pencil sketches of the future bonsai. Like a sketch on blank canvas, the artist uses this blueprint as the ideal for the future. Problem is a plant is everchanging and what works in a sketch one year may not work on the same plant 2 years down the road. The painter paints the sketch in months or weeks, and moves on down the road with art tucked under arm looking for a great street corner to sell their wares.

So.. can bonsai just be considered artistic craft? Why does bonsai need to be so straddled with the term ART. What difference will it make in the big picture. On the other side of the pond, Bonsai as an art form is really no bigger there than it is here. I mean there are very talented people doing bonsai here too. There are talented people doing bonsai as the only means of support and making a living at it. There are great exhibits being done on a yearly basis here too. Just what is expected from the art moniker on bonsai and what will it do to the big picture?

Bonsai will never be thought of anything bigger than a novelty. Gardening at best. Something for the whole family to do in the privacy of their backyard. That is what we are saddled with. Seeking more is lunacy. In America anyway, expecting anyone with an ounce of brains to speculate big money on a potted plant is akin to selling swamp land in Arkansas.

Yes there are few that will fight the big fight and go down in martyr flames holding a large flag reading:

Bonsai is art , Damnit!

Who cares!
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/|\ Bonsai-al

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I been kidding the last seven years.
no.... really!

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Will_Heath

A wise sculptor was once asked how in the world can he carve an elephant out of that big block of stone. The sculptor just looked at the person and said, "It's the easiest thing in the world, my friend. You just take away everything that doesn't look like a elephant."

Matt,
I think we need a special archive here for quotes such as Al's...

"Bonsai will never be thought of anything bigger than a novelty. Gardening at best. Something for the whole family to do in the privacy of their backyard. That is what we are saddled with. Seeking more is lunacy. "

It should be worth a few chuckles either way in the future.

I have seen bonsai so beautiful and so moving that one would forget that they are actually a growing thing. ART? Absolutely by any definition of the word. Look it up. Are all bonsai art? No more than all paintings are art.

This subject has been debated thoughout history on one subject or another, greater minds than us have already hashed this question to death. (See my signature)

Sometimes you just have to admit that water is wet, the earth revolves around the sun, and death comes to all living things...face it move on, accept the truth.

Will

(the village lunatic)

imyerhukleberry

Ha! You got me Al! You tricker you!

pdbbonsai

Bonsai Books are found in gardening sections of the library and all book stores......

Bonsai is not art. According to the dewey decimal system, and the staff at my local Barnes and Noble.

Paul

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It is essential to experience all the times and moods of one good place. (Thomas Merton)

BonsaiTalk is one good place. (me)

B.adair

A lot of professional skaters and bike riders, have known to be quoted when a reporter asks them "do you think of skating (or biking) is considered a sport? the greats will answer "no, what we do is purely self expression through advanced techniques and years of practice" needless to say I think the same applies to bonsai!

JTriptow

Music, Drama, Graphic Design, Etc... all "art". They all have their own sections at the bookstores & libraries.

I had the opportunity to view an amazing bonsai collection recently. Awe inspiring, really. The "art" is what drew me into bonsai in the first place: admiration for the design. It was not "oh wow, look at that cool plant"---it was all about the detail, the talent, the resulting effect on my imagination.

I, for one, could never be convinced it is not an art. But the debate will surely rage on forever.

Jennifer

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Who knew trees could become an obsession?

pdbbonsai

Wasnt being serious Jennifer. I am bored of the debate, and why I even bothered jumping in on this one is beyond me.




I for one like bonsai for what it does for me. I probably couldnt put into words. I too, believe it to be an "artform".

Paul

__________________
It is essential to experience all the times and moods of one good place. (Thomas Merton)

BonsaiTalk is one good place. (me)

muddslinger

Completely untrue. Every medium has it's "stops", the one I'm most familiar with "A lifeless lump of clay", has many. Some can be overcome with practice and time, but there are things that clay or paint & canvas (or wood as I'm sure you know Al) just won't do. The time scale and permanence vary greatly between mediums and bonsai is unique in it's challenges and confines, but any form of art or craft has it's unique limits.



Each form of art or craft has its own set of definitions as does each artist or crafts-person. There are many that say pottery isn't an art but a craft. This is a debate that will go on forever.

Best,
Kevin

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Hand Crafted Bonsai Pots by Kevin Thompson

Attila

Is language art? Not to me. But writers, poets think it is.
Is speaking art? Not to me. But great public speakers think it is.
Is moving art? No, I just move. But ballet dancers think it is.
Is tea-drinking art? In Japan, sometimes it is.
Is make-up art? (you know, putting on lipstick). See the Oscars for make-up artists.
Is figting art? Martial arts..?, anybody?

What about war? You must be kidding. That's murder.
But: Read "The Art of War. A few twisted minds think it is.


Everyting is art if you want it to be. And nothing is art if you don't care.

...sorry, just (..beating a dead horse) taking a break from my work..

P.S.: I forgot to ask: are language, speaking, moving, tea-drinking, make-up, fighting, war, etc art or craft?
Who votes for craft?