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27-Apr-2007
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#1 |
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recovering pine addict
 
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Sticks-in-a-pot
I feel like its time for me to post my true feelings about this site. I’m sure I’m not the first to bring this up but here we go. I enjoy the different forums but have noticed over the past few years that the majority of the members here believe that true bonsai is only a tree that one has been grow from a stick-in-a-pot or better yet from seed and that purchasing a nice tree is not what bonsai is about. I’ve noticed that posts that include the proverbial home grown bonsai get much more replies than the tree that is purchased at $500 or $1000. It seems that most here, and I may be wrong, do not believe that a tree purchased is worthy of a comment because the work is complete in their perception of the art form and the new owner has nothing to do but water it. They believe that because the tree may be old and cost a great deal that there is no work left to be done. I myself thought that I would never spend more than $50 on a tree 7 years ago but have over the years realized that to work on trees of that caliber they must be purchased. You are not going to grow a masterpiece or even the start of a masterpiece in your lifetime unless you start very young and start several hundred trees of the same species and work down to the 10% that have the potential to be a masterpiece. Believe me you can put years into a tree and have it decide that it has other plans. Some of which are not conducive to bonsai and to have it turn itself into a nice shrub at best. To gain the experience of working on an older tree is worth the money spent. Give up your sticks-in-a pot and do yourself a favor. Get out of bonsai or spend some money on a nice tree. That will do more for your appreciation of the art form than anything else you can do.
OK, you can ban me from the site now… Tim |
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Sticks-in-a-pot |
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Forum Sponsor
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27-Apr-2007
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#2 |
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bonsaiTALK Adept
 
Join Date: Jun-2005
Location: Adelaide
Country: South Australia
Posts: 240
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I don't think thats banning material Tim ... if thats how ya feel about the place then fair enough.
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27-Apr-2007
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#3 |
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Trunk Collector
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That seems a bit harsh Tim. First off, no one here is banned for speaking their mind in a respectful and polite manner.
Secondly, if anything, I think folks have been pushing for more quality trees, grown or bought. Show us good trees! Please! You can fault posters here being overly sensitive to beginners feelings, and their immature view of what a bonsai is, but in my view that falls under the category of encouragement...... Respectfully, Brian
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There's a difference between taking your art seriously, and taking yourself too seriously. |
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27-Apr-2007
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#4 |
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bend me twist me
Join Date: Jul-2006
Location: melbourne
Country: australia
Posts: 1,768
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very strong claims tim should we get the violin out? you do what you gotta do and everybody else will do what they gotta do. sound fair?
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Antonio . . . ------------------------------------ |
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27-Apr-2007
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#5 |
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Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb-2005
Location: Carlsbad, California..coastal desert
Country: United States
USDA Zone: 11
Posts: 5,412
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Tim, where do you get that impression? Sticks in pots are something that most people feel comfortable talking about... people like to chime in on how to do this or that. But when really impressive trees are posted, they get plenty of attention and admiration. There just isn't as much to say about a finished tree.
Maybe our perception of how the forum works, is different. Instead of looking at the actual replies, look at the views. Replies are made when people feel that they have something to contribute to the conversation. Views of a post are because people are interested. Many people will view, and admire, but not make a comment. Do you comment out loud about every tree you see in an exhibit? No, you merely admire and appreciate in silence most of the time. Check out the gallery, and see how trees are rated and the comments made there. Finished trees (no matter what their origin) are appreciated there, because that is our 'exhibition'. Otherwise, trees posted in the forum will draw comments as I said above... when people feel that they have something worthwhile to contribute to the conversation. Bonsai is still very much a personal journey. Starting a tree from scratch seems to be the most popular way of starting the journey. By the time people are willing to spend serious money on a tree, they usually don't really need critique from the forum, they already know pretty much what they want to do with it. If they post it, like Mike P or Al K do often, it is as much for the education of the members as it is for gaining information. Joanie |
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27-Apr-2007
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#6 |
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小品盆栽を始めよう。。。
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Hmm...well, in my opinion you have to think statistically about the problem. If someone posts a picture of a stick in a pot, a lot more people will have ideas about what to do with it than a decent 'finished' bonsai. If someone posts a stick, then even I could have a go at suggestions for improvement...plant it in the ground to thicken it up...do this...do that, but once the tree is past my level of expertise, I can't really make a constructive comment can I? So the older, or more advanced the bonsai, the fewer people are able to comment, because there are far more beginners here than experts.
Just what I reckon anyways... |
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27-Apr-2007
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#7 |
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bend me twist me
Join Date: Jul-2006
Location: melbourne
Country: australia
Posts: 1,768
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this thread is finally starting to make some sense thankyou
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Antonio . . . ------------------------------------ |
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27-Apr-2007
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#8 |
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bonsaiTALK Expert
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This post makes little sense to me. To me, there are far more posts that are totally the opposite with everyone telling the person with a stick in a pot to just plant it in the ground for years because it is worthless. It seems to me there are far more "you get what you pay for" posts that anyone extolling the virtues of sticks in a pot. I can't even count the times some noob has posted him mallsai or $5 juniper only to have everyone tell him to plant in the ground.
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27-Apr-2007
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#9 |
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小品盆栽を始めよう。。。
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Mmm...yes...I kind of agree. I'm encountered mixed responses from this website...which sometimes confuses me. Sometimes people will just not respond to a noob question, and let it get pushed aside, others get kinda negative responses saying plant it in the ground or what not, while others get very positive responses, with virtuals and lots of feedback. It's odd because often in my opinion they all look like the same kind of question. Maybe some people just have more rapport that other posters, or maybe you eventually reach such a stage in bonsai that you can accurately predict a good bonsai's future just from the sapling...
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27-Apr-2007
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#10 |
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Enthusiast
Join Date: Feb-2005
Location: Carlsbad, California..coastal desert
Country: United States
USDA Zone: 11
Posts: 5,412
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There are a lot of reasons that people don't respond to particular posts. Timing has a lot to do with it, for instance. Some posts on weekends won't be answered as well as they could, because a lot of people don't get on the internet over the weekend, for whatever reason. Spring is a busier time for people than fall or winter, people are out messing with their trees or on vacation. A question that is essentially a repeat of a question that has recently been answered may get no response. A question that no one has a good answer to, such as a tree ID, may get no response. Just because no one has a good guess. A fuzzy pictures of a few leaves and a nondescript trunk don't give many clues that would lead to a correct answer. Especially if the poster lives in an area that most people aren't familiar with.
Sometimes the first answer to a question pretty well says it all, so people aren't inclined to come on and just reconfirm it. Sometimes the question isn't easy to answer, doesn't make sense, or isn't written in a way that people can decipher. Often with styling critiques, people aren't interested in spending time doing virtuals, or trying to explain their thoughts. Or they don't know exactly what to do with a tree, or the pictures aren't really showing what they need to know. There are so many subtle factors in why posts get answered or don't, that you can't really quantify it. And if you think that we aren't answering the posts enough, then it would be beneficial if you spent time regularly answering them too. (This is a general "you", not meant for anyone specifically) There are a few regular people who consistently take the time to answer, patiently and fully, many of the beginner questions. And there are countless thousands who only look, but don't contribute at all. Joanie |
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