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#1 |
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Banned 08JUN2005
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The Spirit Of Western Bonsai
Been away for awhile, mentally, not physically, and when I avoid active interaction with other bonsai enthusiasts I find my thoughts and ideas start to settle down and become clearer to me. Even found my level of interest in bonsai dropping, though lately, I find it once again surging.
I've found myself thinking, once again, about how Bonsai in the East (particularly Japan) differs from Bonsai in the West: Europe and the US. I suppose there are differences in technique, but I don't think this is where the essential diferences lie. Rather, I think the most essential differences lie in the spirit expressed through the practice of bonsai. I found myself drawing an analogy between Bonsai and the martial arts and comparing the differences in bonsai to the differances between the Eastern Martial Arts and Western Boxing. Some mighty tough guys exist in both sports, but, for me, there are basic differences between the spirit expressed by, say, Bruce Lee and, say, Mike Tyson, two fighters who represent the essence of their two rather superficially similar sports. Perhaps it would be fairer to site, say, Evander Hollyfield as exemplifying the Western Warrior, but my conclusion remains: two very different "spirits" are being expressed. I think that two rather different spirits are being expressed by Eastern and Western Bonsai. Western Bonsai is all about Art and technique; Eastern Bonsai is about something else. It is hard for me to articulate what that something else is; as a typical American, I lack the vocabulary and conceptual framework to articulate it very well. But, the expression of that "something else" is, I think, what draws people to Bonsai and its lack of presence in Western bonsai and, even more importantly, among Western practitioners, is what quickly disappoints and frustrates so many people who are attracted to Bonsai but quickly drop out. It explains the low monatary value attatched to Bonsai in the West, particularly in the US. It explains why we are all so "put off" by the small minority of Western practitioners who attach the fancy names to their creations common in the East and why there is so much hostility to Japanese trappings to Western Bonsai exhibits. The spirit that these sorts of things express are simply incongruent with Western culture and the spirit it expresses. "Spirit" has to do with states of mind and there is more to states of mind than artistic technique. Bonsai takes one into different emotional and attitudinal territory than those generally accepted and encouraged by the dominant Western culture. And this presents, at least in my mind, a basic challenge to the wider acceptance and appreciation of Bonsai that is not even recognized much less abot to be overcome any time soon in the West. With best regards, Fred |
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#2 |
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Registered FedEx Sender
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Fred, this is an excellent train of thought, one which I hope will be followed energetically. Personally, I believe that that spirit or ideal of Japanese bonsai is one that western practitioners should at least try to understand if not emulate. There are many things the Japanese have learned from western culture, which made their own more powerful and complete. In some ways it is the hubris of the west (read Americans) that keeps us from learning some of the beauty and strength of the Japanese culture.
Since bonsai is an art that reached its zenith in Japan, to plumb the depths of bonsai requires one to understand some of its cultural underpinnings. This of course opens the old can of worms that springs from our pride in our "rugged individualism" and makes us disdain other cultures. My point is simply that yes, there are differences between western and Japanese bonsai, and perhaps we could learn from the Japanese influence. Chris
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Chris Johnston "She was a critic, and lots fo critics who aren't called to do what they write about grow jealous and mean and small in their disappointment." - Stephen King, Duma Key Sashi-no-eda.blogspot.com |
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#3 |
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Trogdor!!!
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I hope that, although i also lack the vocabulary to articulate the ideal of the Japanese spirit in bonsai, that that spirit is a big part of why I enjoy bonsai so much. I think that, even though i wasn't really aware of that influence in Japan, it still found me anyway. Hopefully now that i realize that it's there, i'll be able to "listen" to it more clearly.
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<------------ Thomas Newton Do not be afraid to go out on a limb ... That's where the fruit is. - Anonymous |
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#4 |
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I stand and stare a lot
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I am not sure if it is the spirit of the "process" of bonsai that differs between the Eastern and Western styles, but tend to think that it is the essence and spirit of the trees that are used in the process.
For myself, having tried to understand the way bonsai is practiced in Japan, and having tried for many years to create and style my trees from examples of japanese trees, I have miserably failed to produce even one example of an acceptable bonsai. What was missing for me was the cultural background and the insight into the nature of the japanese environment. However, once I started looking at the amazing trees in my own back yard (Britain and Germany) I found that the spirit of those trees spoke a diffent language. Working with trees that enable me to express the nature and essence the trees that I "know", have allowed me to achieve some quite acceptable trees. I am afraid that I do not get too hung up about art and technique, in my view, that is the domain of the top 10% of bonsai artists in both the east and the west. I enjoy bonsai because it brings me close to nature and gives me time for contemplation and relaxation.
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I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person |
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#5 |
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bonsaiTALK Master Chief
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well said fred. you got me to thinking about how little i know about the eastern cultures and how stereotypically we think of them. i had posted a thread about a japanese garden that i was in the process of constructing (http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/showthr...57157#post57157), then i read your thread. now, i will continue with the garden area's current path, but i will definatley do my research as to the why, how, and what before again attempting to recreate anything of any cultural background. it is funny though, you apply a few principles to create a bonsai and BAM, bonsai it is. that is the western world in a nutshell, most don't have the patience to learn what it is all about, sad state of affairs really.
chris
__________________
A bonsai is like a good marriage.You commit, for better or for worse, till death do you part. I DO!!! |
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#6 | |||
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bonsaiTALK Expert
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Quote:
Chris, and others, This is an interesting remark. I think Fred's subject can be viewed from a few different angles. Mkoning finds that Quote:
Bonsaikc says: Quote:
These to me are very interesting thoughts on the spirit of Western and Easern Bonsai. As mentioned before, the East has gained from Western ideas. And the West has gained things from the East. The globe really does shrink even more when culturul crossings occur. My personal view on Spirit Bonsai stems from an interesting experience I had when I was growing up. Bear with me here: From 96-2000 I lived in Cairo, Egypt, and went to an American International school, where there was a rather large mix of many different cultures. Citizens of countries such as the USA, Russia, Korea, Japan, China, the Netherlands, even South Africa were present. This experience broadened my horizons, and I found an apprecaition for all the cultural expressions that I had learned from everybody else. However, where did all the cultural stuff (for lack of a better work) arise from? History. I found that things are done for a reason, and I haven't truly discovered all the reasons yet why I practice bonsai. I know that I find it to be a channel through which time has no importance. I learned this from reading and researching alot. There's some information in a book I have that says monks would nurture and grow their trees, knowing that the tree would continue to flourish after their death, but it brought to mind the balance between life and death, man and earth. To me, this is the essence and spirit of the East, balance, self-actualization through an art, and devotion. Fondest regards, Dane |
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#7 |
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bonsaiTALK Master
Join Date: Jun-2004
Location: S. California
Country: USA
USDA Zone: 8-10
AHS Heat Zone: 6-7
Posts: 314
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I think that Henry David Thoreau might possibly be the West's equivelant to the Eastern Bonsai master.
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#8 |
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bonsaiTALK Master Chief
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dane, please don't misunderstand, bonsai to me is what it is to mkoning, it is my escape, my time to relax and think about things. i very much enjoy nature and plants as a whole, my comment was a generalization of the western cultures attitude, mainly the american part of it. i personally have read many articles and books on the roots (no pun intended) of bonsai and how it became what it is today. it is my opinion however, that most of the western civilization either doesn't have the patience to do the research or they just don't care to know. which is why i said that it was a sad state of affairs.
chris
__________________
A bonsai is like a good marriage.You commit, for better or for worse, till death do you part. I DO!!! |
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#9 |
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Banned 08JUN2005
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I sure enjoyed the responses to this topic. I was quite intrigued by several of them, bot found the comment on Henry David Thoreau particularly interesting. I always had a great love for the New England Transcendentalists and, yes, now that it has been mentioned, I think that the the state that reading Ralph Waldo Emerson brings me to has similarities to the effect upon me of contemplating a really well done bonsai.
Three or four decades ago, there was a movement in the US and Western Europe called the Voluntary Simplicity Movement. I was never involved in it directly but was kind of a closet admirer. It seemed to me that it somehow caught some of this same attitude towards life. Veneration of the natural (whatever that is), a direction counter to Western Consumerism. I don't know where it stands today, but I can certinly imagine Bonsai Cutivation being incorporated into the lifestyle it held dear. I think Eastern Religions, Shinto, Buddhism, Daoism and so forth are largely about the cultivation of attitudes and states of mind and are much more conguent with bonsai cultivation being an appropriate, even noble, use of one's time and fortune than are Western religions and philosophies. A man who I have nothing but the greatest repect for (Walter Pall) once used the words "Oriental Hocus Pocus" in referring to Eastern religious practices and I think this is a common Western reaction to the focus on internal mental and emotional states that exists in Eastern religions. My own view of Bonsai is that this is really what it is all about: a technolgy for changing our internal spiritual state. Once again, thanks for the comments. Fred |
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#10 |
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bonsai is not my hobby
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' A man who I have nothing but the greatest repect for (Walter Pall) once used the words "Oriental Hocus Pocus" in referring to Eastern religious practices ...'
Fred I may now loose all respect. Maybe you should know though that I would say exactly the same about western religions. Kimura was in Munich, Germany a few weeks ago. On stage, in a public interview, I asked him 'is ist true that bonsia is closely connected to Zen Buddhism?' He said that it is absolutely not true. Bonsai has nothing to do with religion. Anybody with or without any religioin can do bonsai well. All it requires is a good feeling for nature. While this is part of Zen Buddhism, they don't have a monopoly for that. He went on that there are clearly MORE BONSAI ARTISTS in Europe than in Japan (he differentiates beween artists and gardeners) and that probably none of them is a real Zen Buddhist. Mozart's music can only be appreciated by a person coming from Austria, namely Salzburg, who is white and Roman Catholic. Say I as coming from Salzburg, where Mozart was born. Or is this utter nonsense, putting hocus pocus into music where it does not belong? best regards Walter Pall Last edited by Walter_Pall : 15-Jun-2004 at 12:29 PM. |
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