soil question - LARGE juniperus virginianus

4-Feb-2007

toolpro

bonsaiTALK Journeyman

Join Date: Feb-2006

Location: Atlanta

Country: US

USDA Zone: 7-8

AHS Heat Zone: 7

Posts: 17

soil question - LARGE juniperus virginianus

What soil mix do you recommend for a LARGE juniper (red cedar)?
This tree is about 6' tall, 10" diameter trunk; the property is about to be graded, and I have permission to take it before the bulldozer gets it. I have read in articles on soil that the mix changes as the tree size increases. I was contemplating a 50:50 mix of perlite and rotted pine bark for the grow box. And a second question: is pressured treated wood ok for the grow box?
Thanks,
Rick

Attached Images

rickcedarsmall.jpg (39.9 KB, 133 views)

Sponsor Message	soil question - LARGE juniperus virginianus
Advertisement Forum Sponsor	<a href='http://adserver.bonsaitalk.com/adclick.php?n=ac8bc944' target='_blank'><img src='http://adserver.bonsaitalk.com/adview.php?what=zone:4&n=ac8bc944' border='0' alt=''></a>

4-Feb-2007	#2
rockm bonsaiTALK ArchMaster Join Date: Oct-2003 Location: Fairfax, Va Country: USA USDA Zone: 7 AHS Heat Zone: ? Posts: 4,561	Nice tree. You sure it's a Red Cedar, not just plain old juniper? I would use a little bit leaner mix in a big grow box for this one--I'd use a 60/40 inorganic/organic mix or even a little leaner. Drainage is an issue with junipers. Soggy soil doesn't do them any good. I'd also use a fired clay or pumice, instead of perlite for the inorganic. I'd stay away from treated wood for the grow box, especially the wood meant for decks, which can be treated with arsenic. Instead, look for a plastic nursery container on the huge side, like 30-40 gallons...

4-Feb-2007	#3
toolpro bonsaiTALK Journeyman Join Date: Feb-2006 Location: Atlanta Country: US USDA Zone: 7-8 AHS Heat Zone: 7 Posts: 17	I'm not sure what 'plain old juniper' is, so I can't answer that so well. I matched the foliage and bark to my tree books, and 'virginianus' was my best match, but I really don't know . Why do you recommend clay rather than perlite? This whole soil thing is quite interesting to me, and I am trying to understand better. And oops on the grow box wood. I have built a lovely 30" 48" x 12" box, but of pressured treated from Lowes, so it is undoubtedly the deck material. Will the bad chemicals harm the tree? Thanks. Rick

4-Feb-2007	#4
Vonsgardens Bonsai Evangelist Join Date: Feb-2005 Location: Arkansas Country: USA USDA Zone: 7 AHS Heat Zone: Hot Posts: 2,079	Box will be fine. Just tie the tree in real well. You shoulld be able to get haydite or "litewate" or some other expanded shale product, like RockM was talking about. I have used pure perlite in the past, but it doesn't give the stability you need- my mistake. If you can't find anything else- try turface (or oil dry not quite s good), mixed with bark and perlite- about 1:1;1. The goal will be to not over water it in the beginning, yet keep it moist. John __________________ "Wiring is simple; However, it is not easy to do it right" Boon

4-Feb-2007	#5
Weevilmd bonsaiTALK Journeyman Join Date: Apr-2006 Location: Spring Lake,MI Country: United States of America USDA Zone: 5a,5b AHS Heat Zone: ? Posts: 49	Really spectacular presence in this tree. If that is natural growth, holy yamadori bonsai man.(he he haha) Stay away from the pressure treated wood. Use cedar or redwood if you can maybe even a half whiskey barrel for something more perminent at your home , not for transport ,but a grow box would be easier to handle since it is square, you can build one with handles, and I suspect you will need help moving it. Minimum size for this specimen , 30 X 20 inches maybe. Hurry and scout around for some better medium. A 70 / 30 might be better. 30 bark, 70 mix perlite , lava rock(crushed/sifted), haydite, turface(tm),maybe even pea gravel, any inorganic ,free draining medium. That's alot of perlite, alone.... May the bonsai super entity be on your side procuring this tree. Last edited by Weevilmd : 4-Feb-2007 at 12:35 PM.

4-Feb-2007	#6
TCTNY bonsaiTALK Journeyman Join Date: Jul-2004 Posts: 42	I have collected (2) Eastern Red Cedar or Juniperus Virginiana; they do well in lava rock and pumice [dry stall - horse prodcut] if you can find it. More important is to try and get rid of most of the native soil so the roots do not rot. My trees were no where as nice as this one - so I was pretty rough with the garden hose. Alot depends on the soil the tree is growing in at the time of collection. You could have quite a root ball with that size trunk....good luck...tom.

4-Feb-2007	#7
toolpro bonsaiTALK Journeyman Join Date: Feb-2006 Location: Atlanta Country: US USDA Zone: 7-8 AHS Heat Zone: 7 Posts: 17	Ahhh. Stability. THAT was what troubled me about the perlite mix, and I couldn't articulate it. I can add any number of more substantial inorganics - it's easy to get lava rock or 'poultry grit', which is crushed granite. Thanks guys! Rick

4-Feb-2007	#8
Graydon bonsaiTALK Master Craftsman Join Date: Apr-2006 Location: Lakeland - Florida Country: United States USDA Zone: 9A AHS Heat Zone: 11 Posts: 984	Nice tree. It's an eastern or a southern red cedar as best as I can tell. Great movement. My big eastern red buds back very well so you can chase that foliage back to the trunk as needed. You are in Atlanta? Go to the Monastery in Conyers, Bonsai Monk. They have the pumice and the lava in bags graded for size and ready to go. I agree with John - the box will be fine for the tree. The treatment for PT wood has changed and it now is arsenic free. Make sure you have plenty of drainage in the box. __________________ There is unrest in the Forest There is trouble with the trees For the maples want more sunlight And the oaks ignore their pleas.

4-Feb-2007	#9
toolpro bonsaiTALK Journeyman Join Date: Feb-2006 Location: Atlanta Country: US USDA Zone: 7-8 AHS Heat Zone: 7 Posts: 17	So it's the old PT wood that was bad, and the new formula will not harm plants? What about plain old lava rock (small) from Lowes/Home Depot? Any difference? (there is a big difference in price and convenience.) Rick

4-Feb-2007	#10
Graydon bonsaiTALK Master Craftsman Join Date: Apr-2006 Location: Lakeland - Florida Country: United States USDA Zone: 9A AHS Heat Zone: 11 Posts: 984	Hey Rick - It's debatable as to the harm of the new PT and the old PT. I wouldn't put either in my mouth. The old stuff was CCA (chromated copper arsenic) and it is both the chromate and the arsenic that leaches and is bad to you in high levels. The new stuff (which is noted on the lumber tag) is either ACQ (alkaline copper quat) or CBA (copper azole) and is less harmful or so they say. The real downside to the new PT is how you fasten it. It is corrosive (5x more) than the old PT so nails and screws need to be hot dipped or stainless. Not to worry with a grow box though. Here is a nice article on CCA and the new stuff and gardening. The lava should be a small grade, I don't know what you get up there. I do know what size the bonsai monk stuff is. I would say 1/8" - 3/16" - 1/4" size. It would be important to me to match particle sizes with everything in the mix. In other words even particle sizes would be better than small bark, medium pumice and large lava. __________________ There is unrest in the Forest There is trouble with the trees For the maples want more sunlight And the oaks ignore their pleas.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Just a silly question.	Ron Martin	General	17	18-Oct-2004 07:48 AM
Question About Soil	Stickboy	General	3	4-Aug-2003 03:09 PM
Another Soil Question...	stepping_razor	Soils, Fertilizer & Repotting	1	25-Sep-2002 05:51 AM
What's the big fuss about soil ingredients?	TreeBay	bonsaiTALK FAQ	0	31-Oct-2001 02:37 PM
Soil Mixes	Past_User	Soils, Fertilizer & Repotting	5	20-Oct-2001 10:17 AM

	Thread Tools	Display Modes
bonsaiTALK Hint: Did you know you can double click any bonsai term on this page for its definition?