Seen this on Ebay?

John Dixon

I've said it many times:

If a seller has a "reserve" price in mind, they should post it and let the potential buyers have at it. The only reason I know of to keep it a secret is to go on a fishing expedition. They are "testing the waters".

To me, a motivated seller would say Minimum bid $3000, or whatever, and then let people decide if they want to spend more. With a bonsai priced in the thousands, you aren't exactly catering to the fruggle, so why use the common approach?

It's a very nice trident (root over rock), but at the current price I have to agree with others that I would never make such an investment based on a photo. Of course, that is a by-product of eBay. Many sales happen AFTER the item expires on the auction site with no bids and/or reserve not met. Not saying that this particular seller is doing that, but trust me, it happens.

Free advertising, or at least a cheap rate.

John

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John Dixon

Si vis pacem parabellum

Stay off the trails of others, that's where the booby-traps are.

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Jay

Andy,
Can't agree with you more. The 'value' of anything is the price someone is willing to pay. That said, I do not have to agree with this arrived auction value if I feel it has risen above what in my opinion it is worth. I am not cloudy by a desire to own this tree, I could not purchase this tree for a quarter the price it is at now due to lack of funds although I do think it has more value than that.

Ian,
I understand what you are saying. Shipping is sooo much an issue with pots and other items. Also, with a pot, it is oh so important to be able to place your tree next to the pot to get an idea of the combined effect. This is somewhat negated by special orders which does give the buyer a pot from an artist in the size, shape, color and texture that they desire.

John,
Well put, I sell on ebay and NEVER would use a reserve auction. If you are selling....than sell. Let the market determine the value and list for a proper price.

my two cents
Jay

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A Bonsai student living with his trees at N 44.37 W 77.49...
Think before you act... then think again... no good comes from rushing

Reed

Nice tree, although I dont think I would spend that much without seeing it in person. If your spending $6100 whats an extra few hundred for a plane ride and a rental car to check it out.

Jay & John,

I have to say that I disagree about the reserve price. If the tool is presented why should one not use it? It is not illegal or immoral.

Is your position that it should not be used because it frustrates buyers like yourselves? The purpose of an auction is to maximize the value to the seller, not present the buyer with a clear picture of what the seller thinks it is worth. The seller certainly takes a risk in that if the reserve is $6101 and the final bid is $6100 they turn down that money.

Regards,
Reed

Jay

Reed,
Of course you are correct, it is not illegal or immoral. It is just unneccessary in my opinion. If you want to sell something, with the millions of people on ebay, you will get the most people bidding. Sometimes the reserve actually turns people off. If you are concerned that you are starting to low...and want to put a reserve on the auction... put your reserve in the text so people will know what the story is.

my 2 cents
Jay

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A Bonsai student living with his trees at N 44.37 W 77.49...
Think before you act... then think again... no good comes from rushing

John Dixon

Reed,

What I'm saying is that if the seller won't part with the item for less than $6000, why not start bidding at $6000 with no reserve? You can make the starting bid $6000 just as easy as you can state "reserve not yet met".

Yes, it wastes the time of some who may otherwise bid. In this particular case, there's no risk with losing me as a potential bidder, but I will avoid certain sellers exactly for this reason.

I see it as they don't want to be cornered into having to sell. They want to see what some will offer and then decide later if they would let it go for that, or if it is worth more.

Look at it this way:

What IF the seller was considering selling it for $1000 but thought it might bring more? Is there a better way than to show it on eBay with a ridiculously high reserve price? Then you can base a local sale on what others offered. Like I said, "testing the waters".

I agree it is certainly "legal" for them to do so, but why irritate potential repeat buyers? Enter into the auction with a finite (read reasonable) amount you will take for the item as a minimum, then everyone knows it WILL be sold. It may even make someone bid because they know if they don't, and the minimum bid has been met, they will lose their chance. It's the seller's call though.

John

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John Dixon

Si vis pacem parabellum

Stay off the trails of others, that's where the booby-traps are.

eminart

Well, this particular guy seems to be pretty straight-forward. I've seen a lot of his trees selling on ebay recently. They always have a reserve and every one I've seen has been met eventually. So, he's not "just advertising". I think he just has a low price that he's willing to take. Sure he could post a reserve, but that might not be the best way to go. The bidding will always get started if there is no reserve. It's just a business move. You can't blame him for that. Oh, and by the way all the trees I've seen that he's sold have been very impressive. I don't know where he gets them, but there are no sticks-in-a-pot in his collection.

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"I want life in every word
to the extend that it's absurd....." -- the postal service

Dale Cochoy

Yea, I wouldn't mind sending some of MY pots to the UK market if it were cheaper/easier. I need to expend to that market myself!
Regards,
Dale

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________________________________
If you want to be Different....
You have to DO something Different!
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Some people NEVER take the time to do a job right the first time....
but, they always seem to make the time to do it over again...
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Dale Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio
Yakimono no Kokoro Bonsai Pottery
Hartville, Ohio

Reed

Jay and John,

You make valid points in this regard. Indeed I am sure this does go on and if people do this then they risk alienating customers. As to why not start the auction for $6000 I would answer that auctions are proven to make people pay more then they otherwise would b/c they get caught up in the bidding. By using a reserve instead of a high initial price it gets more people involved in the auction and possibly drives up the price for the seller.

Regards,
Reed

rockm

That's a pretty hefty price, but that's a pretty hefty tree in all respects--quality and size. That close fitting nebari on the rock is extremely tough to produce.

One thing that is not ever apparent in selling stuff like this is--how's the buyer gonna get his hands on it after the auction?

Obviously, the buyer and the seller will work this out, but...Shipping a monster like that will cost another couple of hundred bucks and air freight for living material is a risky biz. I have had large trees shipped to me, packed very, very well, but there is always some breakage. It's almost impossible to not get damage on a tree, especially one with alot of big branches and fine ramification, when you put it a big box and trust the cargo handlers to handle it gently...