Rules or Not? (Example 2)

hansvanmeer

O so simple:
Because it looks beter this way!
And that is the only "rule" that matters!
Hans.

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HB Smith

A tree that follows all the rules may not exist. I have seen some really fine trees, but none achieved perfection. Rules are going to be violated unintentionally, but unless you have access to better material, you try to make the best of the tree, still trying to stay within the guidelines of the 'rules'. A very useful exercise I have found is to see what an accomplished bonsai artist does to detract from the flaws of an otherwise exceptional piece of material.

Therefore pointing out flaws on a good piece of material and stating that this is proof that it is ok to 'break the rules' is absurd.

__________________
Sincerely,
Howard

www.BonsaiSmiths.net

BrianG

I remember back in grade school that teachers sometimes would say, "Because I said so!" Thinking back, I have realized that I never learned anything useful from these teachers.

Cordially,
Brian

Joanie

No, Brian, that is what your Mother says. Teachers say "because I'm the teacher."

Joanie

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rockm

Brian,

You got kids? If so, ever find yourself saying "because I said so" to get past their simple stubborness?

I have found myself saying that once or twice (or sometimes dozens of times) to my son's unending questions about why he has to take out the trash/clean his room/brush his teeth/move the d#$% skateboard our of the hall, etc. "Because I said so" is a desperate, inarticulate response of last resort when the questioner is biding his time to get out of doing something he knows should probably be done.

Refusing to accept a reasonable response or task isn't the mark of a rebel, or a badge of bravery, or the mark of an "artist," it is a sign that the questioner isn't really opposed to a request, or a rules and is just being lazy.

So, if you feel that you've learned nothing from people that have given up and responded to a question with "because I said so" you might consider the opposite point of view--Why can't the person that elicits this response seem to grasp what's being asked? What's the big deal? Is the task being asked really that incomprehensible, or, are you just being muleheaded or lazy?

I will now get off my "dad" soapbox and return to being a big fuddy duddy, cranky old fart and overall wet blanket...

Vance Wood

You mean you are a Flatulating, wet blanket, old curmudgeon of a fuddy duddy? Well we flatulating, wet blanketed , old curmudgeonly fuddy duddies must stick together. I agree with you.

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The only finished bonsai is a dead one; me 1992 MABA Des Moines Iowa

BrianG

RockM and Vance,

Hans has professed to being a teacher. He made statement that said "Because it looks better that way". My response was an attempt to make a comment without too fine of a point but I now feel compelled to be more blunt. If Hans makes statements to his students such as "because it looks better that way" then I do not believe that is good teaching. The purpose of the rules is not for accomplished bonsai artists to know how to make bonsai, it is for the novice to learn how to make good bonsai. At least that is what I gleamed from that evergrowing, obscenely long thread.

If a kid is being oppositional and defying authority I'm all for unlevelling the playing field with a "because I said so" comment. But not in a situation where somebody is actually trying to learn something. Like, for example, me.

Cordially,
Brian

Lee

Have you ever seen Han's trees He doesnt do beginner bonsai,hans is a very very good artist,if something does look better,but does'nt quite follow the rules what would you do? Cut it off and make it look the same as every one else's tree because someone wrote a book a long time ago which said that is what must be?

rockm

"But not in a situation where somebody is actually trying to learn something. Like, for example, me"

Uh, yeah, tell that to bonsai aprentices in Japan. The Japanese model for learning bonsai can be pretty mindless, but it works. I know Westerners that also learned to be excellent bonsai artists by wiring 5,000 or so mallsai. That's pretty mindless "just do it work," but it taught them well. They weren't interested in making "artistic" trees, but found that applying certain design elements to trees made them sell better. Turns out, most of those elements were in "da rules."

Not to revert to stereotype, but did you see Karate Kid? "WAX ON WAX OFF" Miyagi said, when Daniel san asked when he would learn to do karate. Sometimes simple rote work is far more than the "busy" work some think it is. It teaches. The "because I said so" is a polite way of saying "just shut up and do it." You learn as you work. Pontificating that you need to know all the why's and wherefores of something before you do it will slow you down while you're learning it.

Sure bonsai should be fun and Hell yes you should be thinking about what you're doing and why. But for Gawd's sake, whining about having to actually learn "the rules" cuts into the argument about "actually trying to learn something" doesn't it?

Gawd, I am really deep into fuddy duddy territory aren't I?

Vance, are there dues for the club? :-)