A Question of Attitude

Attila

Larry,

It's not that hard to find a neglected property or some other place and then seek permission from the owner to dig out an old stump: there is your old specimen. You don't have to wait 100 years.

Sometimes they are even grateful if you do it for them.

You just need a pick-axe, a shovel and a little passion.

Attila

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Larry

Very true of course! I missed out on a piece of old privet that was dug up last year. I didnt know it was happeneing till I came home from work to find it all in the skip, cut up! There wwere some quite thick stumps too!
I should take a trip to my local park this spring, I noticed some nice looking 'old saplings' of oak and yew (loads of yew in there, its unreal!) and I know the gardeners there so.....

Theres also a nice field maple there that I will try to get a cutting from, not to mention the Gingkos and english elms. Many of the trees were felled/are being felled to regeneratre the park back to its Victorian status, which to me is crazy but thats another story!

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Today is or was yesterday's tomorrow

Newt

We all start somewhere. Why do we humans have such a tiresome need to "classify" everything? If there were not "hobbiests" then who would buy our rejects at the club auctions?

I would love to be able to afford high quality stock and I feel almost comfortable that I would not kill it but then again I might! One of our club members payed $50 for a tree that died and got his butt chewed by his wife right at our club dinner (she did not know how much he paid)! It is all relative to who you are and where you are in life. Some may see great material, to others that is diapers, shocks, food on the table an oil change etc. Who is a better artist, one who buys someone elses art or one who creates art from scratch?

From an aspiring artist on a limited budget! It is not an excuse if you really don't have the money !!!

Newt

Larry

for me to pay £30 on a bonsai would be reasonable, if i had a spare £30 of course,but to my partner it would be "30 quid for a %$%*$&* tree!!"
Its all relative, we are into our bonsai often to a point bordering on obsession, (I could be like that with cameras too!) but to others theyre just 'trees in a pot'
Of course she did buy me my first bought bonsai for Father's Day last year which was a nice gift.

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Today is or was yesterday's tomorrow

bonsaial1

OK now to get back on track. This post was an exercise in attitude. Read all responses and you will see that not all attitudes about bonsai are the same. If the goal is to have a beautiful tree, then every reply to this thread should agree and be moving in a uniform direction. Its not! There are those like Newt for instance that thinks that somehow I think he should give up bonsai because I don't see his point. On the contrary. I see his point exactly. As well as any others that may think that I poo pooed their good time in the back yard with their trees. That is not the point of this thread. The point is to adopt an attitude of not excepting the best that you can do. Be fair with yourself. If you honestly think that what you have created needs no further refinement nor help, then you have gone as far as you can go. But ... if you look very hard and see the tell tale signs of needing further work, then your attitude has just taken a turn for the better.

I'm not stupid, I know that there are those that can not afford more than the price of a burger for a tree. I know that there are those that have no tools and trim their tree with the wifes scissors. I'm not raining on that parade. What I do rain on is when someone insists that what they are showing in public needs improvement and when told it needs improvement they cannot take the advice with the necessary humbleness to improve. Somehow it is taken as an attack on the their personal work.

The goal is the tree. What you do to it and how you do it is your business. But... when you bring it here and ask for help, take the help in the spirit in which it was given. Its not going to always come with guilded wings and fancy praise. Sometimes its going to come as tough love

The bottom line is, there are those here that can really help someone when they need it. The attitude should be what's best for the tree. Leave the personality traits for American Idol.

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A tree a day...thats all we ask.

Jay

Attitude.....good question. If I fall in either of the two groups, Artists or Backyarders it would be the backyard. That is if!!

I am growing and learning and trying to improve my knowledge of my love, Bonsai. I have said many times that I do not feel I have the talent of others or perhaps the drive either but I do 'enjoy' my trees. It is not possible to know the limits of our abilities until we get 'there'. I have seen my ability grow as my trees have improved. Some of my trees that were once beautiful to me are now less so, their faults are no glaring. My knowledge on keeping my trees alive has improved but actually and honestly isn't good enough.

For the first few years I rushed my trees into Bonsai pots, now I regret that and plan on returning some to grow boxes (in the ground is not practical in Northern Vermont).

I am not young, will turn 60 this summer, but do not feel that time is short. I have many years to grow with my trees, to learn from them how to make them better.

So in conclusion attitude for me is a changing thing. I do not feel I can put myself in either of the two groups but would rather be thought of as a bonsaist who is trying to learn and improve his ability to improve the look and health of his trees.....

thats my 2 cents on the subject
Jay

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A Bonsai student living with his trees at N 44.37 W 77.49...
Think before you act... then think again... no good comes from rushing

Candy_J_Shirey

Al –

I submit this thought for your consideration:

The pursuit of artistic bonsai is not about attitude; it about commitment.

You have envisioned your end result as artistic bonsai and you have made the plan to get there:
Commitment to trees
Commitment to photography
Commitment to stands and pots
Commitment to helping others
Commitment to learning
Many people here have the attitude that bonsai is good and pursuing the art is good but that attitude will not make great bonsai. One must be committed to the journey to reach this goal.

You are bound emotionally, financially and intellectually to pursue artistic bonsai. It is the strength of this commitment that will lead to your goal.

Even if the only goal of a bonsaist is to keep a tree alive and healthy, his attitude of good intentions will not necessarily help him reach that goal. His commitment to care and learning about the needs of the tree will.

What are your thoughts about commitment?

-Candy

cato42

...thanks to all who have participated, for, while I am in no way a master of bonsai, nor did I have anything to do with the initiation of this thread, I find that we have moved into an area of great interest to me. Specifically, that is a consideration of the problems inherent in the practice of an art, and even moreso, the difficulties one encounters in goal-directed growth as a person, leaving well to the rear any goals of goal-directed growth of any potted plant, be it a masterpiece of bonsai or a scraggly little popsicle stick pine. The gulf between "artist" and "hobbyist" is a not uncommon one; I have seen or encountered it in nearly every "extracurricular" activity with which I've ever been engaged.

The process of learning a difficult skill is not a one-size-fits-all endeavor. Some neophytes to any activity bring with them a hardened shell and/or a hard head, and these barriers to learning must be breached before progress can be made. Others may be reclusive, quiet, sensitive, and observant, in need of gentle coaxing into the open and imbued with a sense of safety before they can progress in their learning. Some students may be hindered by a history of abusive behavior on the parts of teachers, and may be gun-shy to the extreme. The important point is, of course, that good instruction is tailored to the needs of the student. Which means that teachers, whose styles and sensibilities vary as widely as do those of pupils, must be sensitive to their own behaviors as well as those of their students.

This is difficult, if not impossible, in many of the circumstances encountered in a web-based world. The difficulties that inhere in internet forums serve obstacles to both learner and teacher, or perhaps we can think here of the displayer--one who posts a photo, presumably seeking aid/critique--and the critic/critiquer--there was another thread that touched on this distinction recently, I shan't delve into it here. Another important point is the context in which the activity occurs. Judging the quality of advice is quite problematic--does the gentleman from Jersey have an opinion worth considering, or should his comments be consigned to the compost pile? Remembering that the tone of written comments might be construed as from the key of B minor when the author meant G major is important, too. And was that note a little flat? Or is it me?

Because of the above, and just because I think it a good general rule, I recommend to anyone participating in these kinds of forums that one remembers that kindness and humility make few enemies. Often we know the other person only by a few jottings herein, perhaps along with viewing a photo or three of their work. We have not walked in his shoes, indeed, we don't even know what size they are. Or if he even wears shoes. Or has feet, for Pete's sake.

The hobbyist, in claiming that role, should be humble in the presence of those who know more, especially if learning is desired. Listening is hampered by one's own voice. Kindliness in asking for help brings more of it than do strident demands. The critiquing artist needs these qualities, too; humility and kindness seem entirely apropros if one considers that the person receiving the critique or advice just might feel very strongly about his work not so much because of the quality of work itself, but perhaps even more because of the effort invested.

My son just this past weekend participated in his Cub Scout pack Pinewood Derby, and, by some miracle, his car won the whole blooming thing. By the conclusion of things, boys and dads were asking both of us for advice and hints. We tried kindly to comply as best we could, all the while reminding ourselves and others that our success was perhaps as much in spite of as because of our efforts. And while I will admit to being quite proud of my son, it is not because his car won. I am proud of him because, after every race, before he did anything else, he congratulated his opponent on a good race, and he clearly strove to be complimentary of the efforts others had put into their cars, even those that were aesthetically unpleasing. He is growing up as a kind and good man.

I leave you all, from this too-long post, with this: We here have an interest in growing trees, trees in pots. Whereas men and women, says the prophet, "are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field. The grass withers and the flowers fall..." Our trees will often outlive us by centuries. Plenty of time for us to be forgotten, and our mistakes corrected. But let us enjoy our summer in the field together.

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Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

bonsaial1

I agree 100% Candy.

I am commited and have the right attitude. There are many here that are commited but have the wrong attitude.

I posted a trident here a few days back. It seemed OK in person, but as soon as I posted it and seen the picture I knew I was in trouble. I was right. But I have tried to correct the image (see area 51) and will continue to make scrolls and change things around till someone, whose opinion I admire and respect tells me that I may have hit it. Then it will be up to me to figure out what I did right. Thats my attitude. Thats my commitment!

Thanks for the heads up, Al

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A tree a day...thats all we ask.