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28-Nov-2006
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#1 |
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Bonsai nare-do-well
 
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Pre-bonsai etc defined ;o)
Just about everybody has heard of the term pre-bonsai. And just about everybody has their own definition of just what that means. I had nothing better to do this afternoon so I thought I would astound (or bore as the case may be) you with how I define the term.
For the purpose of this discussion I have lumped both nursery stock and collected (yamadori) trees into one major group. They are different only in how they are obtained. The basics on selecting them is however exactly the same. Bonsai Terms Defined
Any and all items grown from seed, cuttings , air layers, ground layers and the preverbal Petri dish fall into this category. This category also includes all plants collected from your back yard, the neighbors yard, nearby mountains or cow pastures. Every plant in a nearby nursery or chain store also qualifies as a candidate . Mostly things in this category must merely be alive. These items here are easy to find. Takes no real talent to select. It is, however, an important category of plants. Even the most famous of all bonsai started off in this category. Masterpieces can be found here. One just has to look close because that masterpiece is hiding among all those lesser trees. Kind of like that old “needle in the haystack” thing. Pre-Bonsai What is left when one goes through all that nursery stock and pulls out what might just be worth consideration as bonsai material. It usually has a nicely turned trunk and sufficient branching to work with. When collecting trees from the wild the pre-bonsai is seldom found 10 foot away from the car. One has to learn to walk past a lot of nursery stock in order to find the pre-bonsai. Lots of trees in the forest but only a few pre-bonsai. About 20% of nursery stock will fall into this category. Some skill and training is required to be able to distinguish between nursery stock and pre-bonsai. Most beginner bonsai students (and some bonsai shop owners) need to do some study in this area. Come to think of it some that profess to be bonsai teachers need some remedial study here. Potential Bonsai (called potensai by some) What’s left after looking through all the pre-bonsai stock out there and weeding out all the stuff that really doesn’t have a high amount of potential. Items left may still have some flaws but they can be corrected within a normal human life time. In this stage styling starts. This may take many years. During this time the bonsai student will be molded just as much as the tree is. The student will have to learn many things to keep ahead of the tree. Only about 10% of pre-bonsai will ever make it to this category. The other 90% will fall into the “what the heck was I thinking” category. Bonsai The final group. It can be broken down into several categories. Good; bad; indifferent and masterpiece are among a few of the possibilities. The percentage of trees that make it to this category will depend on how skillfully one can weed through the previous categories and pick the “right stuff“ The pity of it all is that quite a few of us never take that road that leads from nursery stock to bonsai. It doesn’t have to be an expensive trip. Just one that has a planed route. A logical beginning and end. Ask yourself why you would start off with material that doesn’t have a lot of potential. Does it make any sense ? No where in this have I said that only expensive material is worthy of your efforts. Material with potential does not require big bucks. It only requires you to be knowledgeable enough to look for, recognize and then select it. Pass up anything less. Anything less is too expensive ;o) |
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Pre-bonsai etc defined ;o) |
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28-Nov-2006
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#3 |
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BonsaiTalk Master B.S.er
Join Date: Jun-2002
Location: Richardson, Texas
Country: God Bless America
USDA Zone: 8
Posts: 1,285
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You are right, I define it differently. Prebonsai is material is usually found in a bonsai nursery, or in a bonsai collection that has been grown or cultivated for the express purpose of becoming a bonsai. It is grown differently than nursery material which is grown for use in the landscape. Prebonsai has been grown intentionally with proper root pruning, trunk care, and low branching preserved.
Anyway, it's all semantics, as the goal is the same.
__________________
Emerging from winter slumber Bonsai trees burst buds anew Spring is upon us! -Paul S. |
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28-Nov-2006
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#4 |
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New World Samurai
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My wife calls Pre Bonsai our "Landscaping" ... What's her problem?
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28-Nov-2006
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#5 | |
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Bonsai nare-do-well
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Quote:
Problem is a lot (if not most) bonsai nurserys seen to have nothing that fits your discription. ;o) But you are right It just semantics |
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28-Nov-2006
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#6 |
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bonsaiTALK Adept
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Ron,
Technically, all trees in a pot are bonsai...but I think people use terms like pre-bonsai and potensei, etc. because they want to appear a bit "humble" about using the term bonsai.....because the implication is that a bonsai is a special piece of material which portends to be art....and, obviously, so much of what we have and see is not really art..........yet, if ever. .....so it's like saying "almost bonsai", or "not quite bonsai", or "I don't want you to jump all over me for calling this feeble effort, or early effort art.....so I'll call it something else......to be "nice". How does this sit with you? Robert......in Santa Cruz
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Robert.........in Sta.Cruz |
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28-Nov-2006
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#7 |
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Dirty Dog
Join Date: Oct-2005
Location: Hayward
Country: USA
Posts: 206
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Collected trees and / or nursery stock, potensai and pre-bonsai are really all synonymous. Once you start working on them (which would be that moment that your brain decides that they will one day be a bonsai), they are bonsai, otherwise we would all be called pre-bonsaists, or potensaists. We (this pre-bonsai community of ours) would have a lot of pre-bonsai professionals. This forum would be called "pre-bonsai talk". That magazine in the other thread would be called "Pre-bonsai Today" since it mostly focuses on pre-bonsai. There would be pre-bonsai conventions, pre-bonsai vendors, and pre-bonsai workshops and demos. Cookie cutter bonsai would be an oxymoron so it would become "cookie cutter pre-bonsai". I won't even try to go into "pre-mallsai", I could lose my dinner just thinking about it.
Really the only arena that is not pre-bonsai is a show ready bonsai. So we would still have bonsai shows. But, some shows are less prestigious than others, so I guess we could have pre-bonsai shows from some points of view. For example, a small, local club show would likely have pre-bonsai compared to kokufu, so even show ready bonsai is a relative term. And since no one in their right mind would be a student of pre-bonsai, we would still have SOB's. Seedlings are also another story altogether - they aren't bonsai nor pre-bonsai. They aren't trees, else we wouldn't be calling them seedlings. So they would have to be seedlingai. Then once it loses its seedlingness, and you decide to make it a bonsai, it would be a bonsai. It wouldn't be a show ready bonsai however, it would be a show unworthy bonsai. But this doesn't sound real PC, so we should just call it a pre-show bonsai. Now if a collected tree isn't destined to be a bonsai, it would sure be a waste of time and effort to collect it. So all collected trees would fall into one of three categories: bonsai, firewood, or pre-ebayai, but never pre-bonsai. I hope I have helped you beginners out there on some very relavent and important concepts in this fascinating artform.
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Cordially, Brian The universe is not only stranger than you imagined, it is stranger than you can imagine - R. Dawkins |
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28-Nov-2006
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#8 | |
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Bonsai nare-do-well
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Quote:
Your logic as always astounds me. |
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28-Nov-2006
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#9 |
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bonsaiTALK Craftsman
Join Date: Aug-2005
Location: Campbell south bay area
Country: United States
Posts: 74
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You are all confusing me teribbly...I assumed all pre bonsai stock was shaped like those orange cones the phone company throws behind their vans whenever they park....Bonsai and good grammar...its too intense to happen for me...
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28-Nov-2006
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#10 | |
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Dirty Dog
Join Date: Oct-2005
Location: Hayward
Country: USA
Posts: 206
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Quote:
You are confusing bonsai styles with pre-bonsai etymology. The orange cone style is actually an advanced form of show ready bonsai rarely seen. In Japanese it is called 'ica crema cona' (eye-sa kree-ma ko-na) style. The orange color is non-contributory to the definition and the leaves are still typically green, unless it is a deciduous tree prior to the vernal equinox.
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Cordially, Brian The universe is not only stranger than you imagined, it is stranger than you can imagine - R. Dawkins |
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