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25-Jul-2004
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#1 |
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Bonsai nare-do-well
 
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Poor Pruning ;o(
Might take me a couple of trys to get all this posted so please hold comments for a few momments till I get done.
Ron Just thought I would spend a few moments on the necessity of making good pruning cuts. I purchased this bougainvillea to take to a workshop in CT. It did not sell so I brought it back. I was peaking at it just a few minutes ago and I finally saw why it did not sell. A poor pruning cut had made the core of the tree to rot away. Nice stock, good flow to the trunk, even a bit of taper. Last edited by Ron Martin : 25-Jul-2004 at 12:24 PM. |
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Poor Pruning ;o( |
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25-Jul-2004
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#2 |
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Bonsai nare-do-well
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Problem is that darn flat cut that was made on the trunk. It collected and held water and after a while the rot began.
That chop stick goes down that hole in the trunk about 3 inches. About half the way down the trunk. |
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25-Jul-2004
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#3 |
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Bonsai nare-do-well
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This is something I should have noticed when I originally purchased the stock. But should have is not did have.
Pruning cuts should always be made in a manner in which it will drain water. If you can't do that at least put some cut paste on it and hope for the best. Any time that a major branch (or trunk chop) is done the heart wood of the tree is exposed. If water is allowed to pool on that heart wood it will eventually start to rot. Once this happens it acts like a wick and pulls the water in. This sets up a chain reaction that will continue down the center of the trunk all the way to the bottom if not corrected. There is a simple solution. Angle those cuts so that they will drain. Just about the only thing that can now be done to that trunk is to get out the old die grinder and try to artfully hollow out the trunk. Thank God I am supposed to do a grinding workshop this afternoon. At least I now have a subject to work on. Maybe I can still salvage a otherwise nice plant. Ok, now my rant is done ;o) |
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25-Jul-2004
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#5 |
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bonsai is not my hobby
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Why are so many people paranoid about the core of a tree rotting away? They should know better. This does not hurt the tree, it is normal! The core is dead and the rotting will not go into live parts of the tree.
Is this so difficlut to understand. Not even 'wxperts' seem to know this. Every trained gardener knows though. I make hoels in deciduous trees intentionally for the core to rot away because holes are a cool feature. best regards Walter Pall |
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25-Jul-2004
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#6 | |
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Bonsai nare-do-well
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Quote:
Walter The core of the tree is not dead, just not as active as the rest of the tree. And if you lived in the hurricane alley (South Eastern US) you would be aware of the problems that trees with a hollow core represent. I am really surprised at your comments. I really thought you knew better. Trees with the center rotted out are damaged trees. The basic core of strength is gone. Not too much of a problem in a small bonsai but a big problem with a full sized tree. And why any one would intentionally make the core rot on a bonsai is beyond me. Rot is an uncontrolled thing with unpredictable results. As with most unpredictable things it is a bit of a silly thing to count on. Me I'll stick with healthy trees . If I want a hollow trunk I will use the old grinder. That way at least the results will be predictable and some what planned. Besides the problem can be corrected by simply making a cut in the right way. Not a big deal. |
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25-Jul-2004
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#7 |
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Bonsai nare-do-well
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For those that might be interested here is what I did to that poor trunk. The trunk is now almost completly hollow.
The detail work still has to be done but I must wait a bit for the wood to dry out a bit before continuing. A slight singeing with a propane torch will bring the grain out. I will then coat it with Minwax to harden to preserve it a bit. (nothing is permanent in bonsai) This will also enhance the grain and hopefully make for a pleasing and natural appearance At least now the rot is gone ( I did grind till I got new wood and not much more.) All cuts will now drain and my tree will not just slowly rot away. Problem fixed. Last edited by Ron Martin : 25-Jul-2004 at 08:47 PM. |
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26-Jul-2004
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#8 |
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bonsaiTALK Craftsman
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I agree with Walter the rotten core can be cool & the tree will compartmentalize (did I spell that right?)
Ron, are you afraid it will adversely affect the health of the tree? |
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26-Jul-2004
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#9 |
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bonsai is not my hobby
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Ron,
do you think I am making this up? This is about knowledge, not amateurish guessing like it is widespread in bonsai circles. You obviously have never heard of tree compartmentalization. A dead core is sometiomes only a problem for a big tree becasue it might get unstable. Just because you have known something all your life and because just about everybody else you know says the same it is not necessarily true. The world is flat, isn't it. A hollow core is not a problem at all for a bonsai. A wound can actually kill part of the core of a tree. But when it is dead it is dead. On big trees the so-called wet-core can stabilize the tree for a very long time. On a bonsai the same it true, but it does not matter at all if the core rots. because a bonsai will always be stable anough. Leave the explanations to those who know what they are takling about. Read tree biology books. Ever heard of Dr. Axel Shigo? Do a google research. Don't listen to your neighbours, they have no clue either. This has nothing to do with hurricanes or part of the world you live in. This is basic biology. Not yet leaked through to bonsai people. Go to see several of these sites: http://www.google.com/search?q=comp...=utf-8&oe=utf-8 Be careful not to misunderstand the importance for bonsai. They speak critically about wounding a tree, but they speak about large trees. After having read all this stuff come back and discuss. I have spent dozens of weeks in University libraries studying this subject. best regards Walter Pall Last edited by Walter_Pall : 26-Jul-2004 at 04:13 AM. |
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26-Jul-2004
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#10 | |
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Bonsai nare-do-well
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Quote:
Yes Walter I have heard about tree compartmentalization. Like you I have spent many years in the library and the classroom as well. I also, like you, know that their are many misconceptions in the bonsai world. I did say in my reply previous to you that a rotten core was not to much of a problem for a bonsai but I guess you missed that. Bonsai are just too small for the lesser strength of a hollow trunk to be a real issue. But, and this is important, once rot starts it continues until the cause is fixed. Rot is not a good way to style a trunk. It is at best a haphazard method. In the case of my tree the rot had put an unsightly hole down the front of the trunk. The only way to make that hole look better was to grind the trunk hollow. In this case it does look better but not as good as it would without the hollow. The decision to bring out the grinding tools was not made by me. It was made by the person that made the poor pruning cut. It held the water and caused the rot. That rot ruined the ascetics of this particular trunk. Could the rot have been prevented. Yes, simply by a slight angle change on that pruning cut made years ago. My essay was not so much about the biology of a tree as it was about how to make a proper pruning cut. How to make a cut that will not cause further damage. Two things caused me to have that hollow trunk setting in front of me. That pruning cut and my inattention to detail when I purchased the stock. I thought I would share that lesson with others on the forum. Hopefully some will understand my little lesson. It was more about prevention than biology. Guess I should have made it a bit simpler so that more could have understood the thoughts I was trying to put forth. I do hope that the explanation I have now given will make it a bit easier for you and others to understand what I was trying to say. A hole in a trunk is only good if it is where you want that hole. You do agree with that don't you. |
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