Poll: Japanese Terms, How useful?

pup

G, day Vance.

Bonsai its Art, Science, History and Philosophy.

Page 9 (nine ) second and third paragraphs ( Quote )
Early reference to " Bonsai" is found in the " Seiwanmoen-Zushi ",published in Osaka in 1875. A special effort was made in this publication to call the hobby
" Bonsai " and this shows a change in attitude toward the art of growing miniature trees.

The Meiji Era ( 1868-1912 ) marks the beginning of modern Bonsai.
The Emperor Meiji, who himself was a gifted poet, encouraged Bonsai as a national art and the name " Bonsai " was made official in this era. The literati group was the main influence in the adoption of the term " Bonsai " at this time.

I hope that I have not broken any rules by this quote.
Yours in Bonsai Pup

__________________
PUP
Advanced begginner


Heatzone USA9/10
Aus 3/4

Advertisement

Bonsai Barry

When I posted this survey, I was thinking primarily of Japanese terms associated with the style of tree. But, as many correctly pointed out, there are some terms that seem to transcend the language barrier such as "nebari" or "jin".

On the other hand, why would I use the Japanese term "Shari" when a could simply use an english equivalent explanation such as "The purposely damaged exterior of a tree, created in order to enhance the aesthetic value and augment the impression of age."?

__________________
Bonsai Barry

"Our talent lies in our choices."

MattO

I don't mind Japanese terms, if they are used generally. But it can be confusing - you know, it's like those darn Japanese have a different word for EVERYTHING....

Vance Wood

Ony if you don't speak Japanese.

As a side bar offered as a "Same Thing" issue: Did you know that world wide all of the terms and communications of all air trafic controllers are in English? Good, bad, or indifferent that's just the way it is. It simplifies matters and contributes to the issues of safety. That way every body is on the same page and knows what every body else is sayng.

__________________
The only finished bonsai is a dead one; me 1992 MABA Des Moines Iowa

dow

I seldom post, believing that I'm much better served by listenning than taliking, but I thought I'd jump in this time. I look at the use of Japanese terms as the basic nomenclature of the art or hobby or whatever it is to you. All subjects have their own unique jargon or nomenclature and it's important to use it correctly. For instance, you call a monitor a monitor, not a "glowing screen of many colors and pictures." A hammer is a hammer. You don't call it a "nail pounder," although that's what it is. Similarly, a shohin is a shohin. It's just two combersome to call it that "little tree that's under ten inches tall above the rim of the pot, " although that's what one definition states. Also, it would get real old to hear "little tree under ten inches tall above the rim of the pot" every time someone wanted to talk about a shohin.

Because of this, I think that it is important to use the Japanese terms where appropriate. Just don't use them to try to impress people, that tack seldom works, anyway. And for Pete's sakes, if you're going to use them, then use them correctly. Nothing is more embarassing than using a word wrong for a long time, only to find out that it doesn't mean anything near what you thought it did.

Oh yeah, I didn't vot either.

err... that's supposed to be vote.

__________________
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently motivated fool.

Robert

Bonsai Barry,

I really appreciate your comment on "shari", and why would you use it when you could use the English version ... That made my point about succinctness and accuracy. I enjoy your sense of humor.

... and Barry, if you're ever up in Santa Cruz, I'd enjoy showing you my garden. I'm in the phone book ... Robert Stoll .

Robert ... in Santa Cruz

__________________
Robert.........in Sta.Cruz

treebeard55

I have to agree. I voted anyway, choosing the option that came closest to how I see it, but intending to add some thoughts.

Certain Japanese terms, as has been noted, have been borrowed into our English-speaking bonsai world: nebari, jin, shari, yamadori, bunjin, and, of course, bonsai, are the ones that come to my mind right away. Most experienced bonsaiists know those terms, and are happy to share the meanings, non-condescendingly, with beginners.

I used the word "borrowed" above in the technical linguistic sense: we have adopted those words into our own vocabularies and made them part of our bonsai language. Most of us find them useful, as well as concise. I certainly prefer "nebari" to "surface root structure." In fact, I use it enough that my 7-year-old is familiar with it!

I think those words, and perhaps a few others, will remain in the vocabulary of English-speaking bonsai indefinitely, and there's no problem with that. For other concepts, we have come up with terms of our own, and will continue to do so. That's part of the process of making bonsai truly our own.

__________________
Treebeard 55

"To do bunjin is easy. However, to do a bunjin masterpiece is difficult." -- Susumu Nakamura, at MBS '07

MattO

"Ony if you don't speak Japanese."

..A SWING AND A MISS! Somebody get that boy a mitt!

Glider

Another side to it I think is that sometimes Japanese terms can be overused in the English speaking world of bonsai, and sometimes not for the best reasons. I remember attending a meeting of a bonsai club once (with a view to joining) and one of the senior members was giving a talk.

His use of Japanese terms meant that more or less every third word was Japanese. I got the distinct impression that it was intended more to show how much he knew and to reinforce his seniority, and less about imparting any knowledge (evidenced by the fact that very few people understood anything he had said, as I found out afterwards when talking to them).

It can also be a little embarrassing at times, particularly when talking to people fluent in Japanese. I still cringe over the number of years I talked about satsuki azaleas (pronouncing 'sat-sooki'). I had read a lot about them so was not completely ignorant on the topic. But reading is one thing...

I was lucky enough to be corrected gently by a wiser man who, rather than just telling me I was wrong (which, I suppose, he would have considered rude), just asked me what I thought of his newly imported 'sat'ski' azaleas.

They were very nice. I bought one to hide my embarrassment and that was my first

__________________
Experience is knowledge gained immediately after it was needed.