Perfect trees in nature? - bonsaiTALK Community

6-Dec-2005	#1
Bonsaifreak bonsaiTALK Master Craftsman Join Date: Jun-2005 Location: Corpus Christi, Texas USDA Zone: 9 AHS Heat Zone: ? Posts: 989	Perfect trees in nature? This is an issue involving the very core of the bonsai philosophy. We often turn to nature for inspiration. More often than not however, trees in nature have "design flaws" or rarely follow a "style" by the rules. Most of them tend to grow in a random, "free style" even those natural "formal uprights", "brooms" or "banyans". So, are we truly emulating nature by following strict design rules or should we incorporate some degree of randomness to imitate nature? Jorge __________________ "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." Mark Twain

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6-Dec-2005	#2
crabs bonsaiTALK Craftsman Join Date: Dec-2004 Location: OH, cincy Country: us USDA Zone: 6 ish AHS Heat Zone: 7 Posts: 52	Does every tree go by every rule? Should a tree go by only the rules? Should rules be bent or broken, or simply not used? I've come to a new revalation that, at one point, there were no rules, and that maybe, after studying nature, the Japanese came up with these rules after much study, to simplify representing nature in miniature. Nature includes some degree of randomness, this is true, but for the sake of art, that randomness might want to only pertain to the rules. IMO, as long as the randomness adds to the line, balance, shape, form, drama and story of the tree, then random on, please. We all know that if everyone abided stricly by the rules like the hardcore orthadox Jewish folks, we would all end up with trees that look very similar, or very few trees worth while at all due to them not being able to be formed by the rules. just some thoughts. i'm interested in seeing where this thread goes. crabs><>

6-Dec-2005	#3
pootsie The Cat's Apprentice *MODERATOR GROUP* Join Date: May-2004 Location: Columbus o-HI-o Country: USofA USDA Zone: 6 AHS Heat Zone: 5 Posts: 3,065	I think this thread is worth a peek as part of this discussion: http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/showthr...ighlight=azalea pootsie __________________ p.s. My cat is a bonsaiTALK Master. Columbus Bonsai Society

6-Dec-2005	#4
Bonsaifreak bonsaiTALK Master Craftsman Join Date: Jun-2005 Location: Corpus Christi, Texas USDA Zone: 9 AHS Heat Zone: ? Posts: 989	Interesting point Crabs... So, if I understnd you correctly you believe "randomness" adds to the beauty of the bonsai tree when properly applied? How much randomness can you apply to each design until it becomes a flaw, just a little or a lot? Jorge __________________ "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." Mark Twain

6-Dec-2005	#5
rockm bonsaiTALK ArchMaster Join Date: Oct-2003 Location: Fairfax, Va Country: USA USDA Zone: 7 AHS Heat Zone: ? Posts: 4,561	"So, are we truly emulating nature by following strict design rules or should we incorporate some degree of randomness to imitate nature? Simple imitation of nature really has nothing to do with bonsai. Bonsai is the INTERPRETATION of nature by man. Just as effective landscape paintings incorporate emotionand strive NOT to be facsimiles of nature, effective bonsai does the same. Nature is not an aritist. Nature simply is. It doesn't interpret anything. It simply acts and reacts. Man at his most artistic is able to interpret nature through his/her experience and emotions. That's what bonsai is. It is NOT simply saying "it happens in nature." More appropriately, a well done bonsai should say "this happens in people's hearts." Design "rules" allow bonsaiists to hone and refine that message.

6-Dec-2005	#6
Will_Heath BANNED Join Date: Apr-2004 Location: Clinton Township, MI Country: USA USDA Zone: 6 MI AHS Heat Zone: 4 Posts: 4,227	There is another train of thought that would state that every tree in nature is indeed perfect. We are just not intelligent enough yet to perceive this in it's fullest. Will

6-Dec-2005	#7
Ian_Homer Square Tree - Round Pot! *MODERATOR GROUP* Join Date: May-2004 Location: Walsall U.K. Country: United Kingdom USDA Zone: 8 AHS Heat Zone: 1/2 Posts: 2,477	And nature does not know anything about . . . er..... hate to mention this..... A R T ! That is in the perception of the human mind. Regards, Ian. __________________ help save The Vulcan... Return to Flight

6-Dec-2005

Will_Heath

Join Date: Apr-2004

Location: Clinton Township, MI

Country: USA

Posts: 4,227

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian_Homer

And nature does not know anything about . . . er..... hate to mention this.....

A R T !

That is in the perception of the human mind.

Regards,
Ian.

Nature may not, but certainly beauty was not created to be recognized by the human mind as such without some purpose.

After all what is the evolutionary advantage of seeing the beauty in a sunset?

Will

6-Dec-2005	#9
mike_p bonsaiTALK ArchMaster Join Date: Sep-2004 Location: South San Francisco, CA Posts: 2,028	The idea that we can improve on nature is a conceit we pursue with vigor because it gives us great pleasure to do so. However, the ideal we wish to achieve is always just beyond the horizon. The journey is unending and the goal is just a glimmer in the distance. Mike __________________ Bonsai is not a hobby. Bonsai is a way of life. MP@BBB Studio There is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way Gautama Buddha

6-Dec-2005	#10
ethanopia bonsaiTALK Artisan Join Date: Jun-2005 Location: Columbus, OH Country: US of A USDA Zone: 5 AHS Heat Zone: ? Posts: 107	I think we forget a lot of times that we are surrounded by trees that, while beautiful, are typically very young. And the tradition of bonsai isn't about replicating trees of average or young age. This is about trees with great age, super special trees that have stood the test of time. And I think that after 400 years or so a tree will have traits associated with the rules of bonsai. For instance many young trees around us in the landscape have plenty of bar branches, this is a big time no no rule in bonsai. But in 100 more years or so those things will work themselves out, one branch will be shaded by the other and die off. I think the traditional rules of bonsai do apply in nature its just that typically we don't see those rules on a day to day basis because the trees around us in our day to day lives, haven't had enough time or influence by the elements to exhibit those traits. This is why we wire, pinch, and prune, to accelerate the time table so we can enjoy the presence, energy, grace, and beauty of an ancient tree in the comfort of our garden.

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