Paperbark and Korean Maple Questions

Deku

I really like the look of both of these trees, but I can't find much information on them as bonsai. Is there some reason they don't seem to be used much? Are they easily killed?

I would like to grow some of my own; from cuttings, seeds, or both, but I understand either way is difficult. Has anyone had any success with these? Can SH/HW cutting of these root or do I need to wait until there is SW growth next spring? Will seeds collected from local trees have any chance of germination? I'd rather not buy seeds or seedlings if I can grow some from local trees.

I should have a .8% hormex rooting powder for "hard to root" trees arriving soon; will this be strong enough for these types? Would it work for Japanese maples? I have read that some people have had success with Japanese maples by putting SW cuttings in a glass of water with some dissolved hormone and a little soap. Would this approach work better for these other types of maples too?

Thanks!

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dtree

I have two Korean maples in my yard. While they are beautiful specimens, I have been told by my bonsai master that they are not so good for bonsai because they have long internodes and dieback readily. Why not try a similar looking Japanese maple that is already used for bonsai ?

Dav4

I can't speak for the Korean maple, but I do know that the paperbark maple, Acer griseum, is extremely difficult to propagate from seed or cuttings. I've read that a 5% germination rate is exceptional, and cuttings aren't much better. Real cool bark, nice form in the landscape, expensive at the nursery due to propagation issues.


Dave

rockm

The Korean Maple you're talking about is Acer psuedosieboldianum? If so, I've seen this variety and it is quite striking in autumn, has smallish leaves, and is quite cold hardy.

http://www.mountainmaples.com do a search on A. psuedosieboldianum...
I see no reason why it couldn't be worked as bonsai...Leaves are a bit on the large side, but I know they can be reduced, as I've seen some in ground specimens at the Nat. Arboretum with small leaves.

I have seen a few other references to Korean Maple as Acer barbinerve which is actually red twigged Korean maple and a completely different tree. I've also seen reference to this tree as Acer shirasawanum. Make sure it's not either of these.

Forget A. Griseum. It's frustrating, sadistic bonsai material. it will not reduce

If you want to actualy do bonsai in the next five years or so, forget using seeds and cuttings...

dtree

The maple I have is acer pseudosieboldianum - I have been told that is difficult to get fine ramification as it will stubbornly throw long internodes. The dieback isn't from cold - I guess the tree does not like being in a pot and will lose whole branches on a whim. That being said, I have not tried it myself, taking the word of someone with more experience who has tried it. That doesn't mean it can't be done.

Deku

I was referring to acer psuedosieboldianum. I assumed there was a reason why I couldn't find many examples of these trees. I did find via google a picture of a nice looking paperbark bonsai.

I realize that it's much faster and easier to buy nursery stock, and that there are trees well suited to beginners that I should focus on. That's the main approach I've been taking. I have a couple of gallon plants I picked up at walmart and lowes, a chinese juniper and a dwarf mugo pine, which I've tried to do some initial styling on. These trees are cheap enough that I'll probably get a couple more juniper, maybe different types, and try to keep them alive after some pruning. Propating from seed and cuttings is sort of a side project that I would like to do. By the time these plants would be ready to attempt to bonsai, I should have some experience under my belt.

Even if these trees are not suited for bonsai, I would still like to grow them. I guess I'm drawn to plants that seem exotic or unique. I also appreciate the challenge. I just got the Dirr and Heuser book on propagation and the Deno book on germination theory from the library so I will try to follow their instructions. Even if only one tree come from all the seeds I collect, I would consider it a success.

rockm

"By the time these plants would be ready to attempt to bonsai, I should have some experience under my belt."

That's probably the best mind set in approaching seedlings. It's refreshing to see someone who isn't set on making bonsai from them immediately.

"Even if these trees are not suited for bonsai, I would still like to grow them. I guess I'm drawn to plants that seem exotic or unique. I also appreciate the challenge."

There's "challenges" and there's "beating your head against a wall." By all means growth them if you like them. They are not unique. They--at least Acer griseum--are avoided. There's a difference. If you think yoy're breaking new bonsai ground, think again. I've learned that bonsai people are quite innovative and will try just about anything. Chances are that just about any species of maple you're thinking about has been tried and there is probably a reason that some aren't being used regularly as bonsai stock. It's probably not a question of "exotic", as much as it is "not worth the effort..."

That being said, I have a feeling that the pseudosieboldianum will probably work out. I have been seeking a larger tree of this species to work on for some time, as the fall color on them is quite spectacular. The in-ground specimens I've seen have red/yellow color on one side of the leaf and bright orange on the other. I have yet to run across a sizeable--over 2 inches in diameter-specimen to work on though...

dtree

I have a couple of five-inchers in my yard. They are spectacular, and have bright red twigs in winter. Here are a couple of pics.

I have tried many different species for bonsai, having worked in the nursery business at one time. I thought I could make anything into a bonsai. I have since found out that my bonsai master has tried everything you can try in this area, and long before I have. Now when I say to him, 'How about this species as bonsai ?', he will pause and then give me a load of info on the positive and negative aspects of said species. That's where I got the info on Korean maple regarding dieback and long nodes. I still may try to make one into a very large bonsai, because I will take these trees with me when I move.

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Deku

I meant unique more in a general sense than as a bonsai. I had never seen or heard of either tree until this year. Of course they are quite accessible I'm sure, but at least locally they are a rarity. If I can grow some acer ps. I might give that a shot but I can't find any good examples of bonsai so I'm guessing it wouldn't work out.